Stirring the pot

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i have a S&W 327 that uses moon clips; i take advantage of them to easily load/unload the pistol. never even tried doing a speed reload with them as i don't carry spare clipped ammo in the field as it is too bulky and likely to bend the clips. instead i carry reloads in quick strips that are stowed away in various pockets. but even just having my first 8 rounds clipped means a faster reload as i can positively eject all at once instead of picking at the 1 or 2 that always seem to get hung up on the latch.


-every gun will fail.. just a matter of when and how and if you'll ever shoot it enough to find out.
-revolvers can go longer without cleaning.
-its safer to shoot a semi auto that's been driven over by a truck than a revolver driver over by the same truck.
-semi autos' power is limited to what ammo you can fit up a magwell inside your grip... revolvers have no such limitation.
-there is no 'one perfect gun'... which is why i need so many of them.
 
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I grew up shooting revolvers. My training is such that shooting and troubleshooting a DA revolvers is second nature. So, I carry a revolver, usually chambered for the 45 ACP.

My experiences with a 1911 have been less fortunate. With any stoppage, I have to inspect the pistol and make an educated guess as to what went wrong and study what I need to do to correct the situation.

My elder brother, trained by the same man, prefers the 1911. Go figure.

Kevin
 
BobWright said:
I carry a Single Action Ruger Blackhawk. That is the handgun that is most intuitive to me. I can clear leather and fire quicker with it than I can with any other type of handgun. And its .45 Colt bullet is capable of doing what is necessary to save my hide. I have lived with, carried, drawn and fired the Single Action enough that I am completely confident in its use.

Bob Wright
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Bob is the epitome of carry what works for you. I love Bob.

Folks talk about drawing a DA/SA revolver and using SA only as their method. There's no difference in that versus what Bob does other than reloads can be quicker than with a SA only.

I say this only to emphasize even further the obvious differences in manual of arms with different firearms, beyond just striker fired and DA/SA or SAO semis.
 
I find many comparisons between the two to be very limited in scope and short-sighted. I'll say up front that I am primarily a revolver shooter but for concealed carry, I prefer a semi-auto for one reason and one reason only, they are flat. Generally speaking, I have experienced very few failures of either platform. However, those with semi-autos greatly outnumber those with revolvers and I own three times as many revolvers.

There are several advantages to revolvers often not cited in these discussions.

The first is accuracy. Most good revolvers with at least a 3" barrel will be twice to three times as accurate as a service auto. To get a highly accurate auto, you need a hand-fit 1911. No centerfire auto can touch the most accurate revolver, period.

Next is the trigger. There are ZERO service autos with a 2-3lb single action trigger. The most popular is the mushy Glock trigger which is very difficult to master in precision shooting (i.e., not just banging away at 7yd silhouettes) and ruins you for anything else. Even a fine tuned 1911 will probably be more like 4lbs.

Now to sights. Service autos have coarse sights. Adjustable sighted revolvers do not. Which makes it much easier to take advantage of their increased accuracy.

Versatility. Autos are great as long as you feed them the right ammo. That is, something that is full power and has a bullet shape conducive to reliable feeding. Revolvers have no such limitations. If it fits the cylinder, it works. In a Ruger .44Mag, I can instantly go from a powderpuff .44Spl wadcutter at 700fps to a monster mashing 355gr at 1250fps. No auto can compete with that.

Power. No packable auto can compete with the revolver for powerful cartridges. Even those designed only to compete with the .357 are often problematic. Those that actually do compete for power are vastly overweight, over-complicated and exorbitantly expensive but still have limitations inherent to any semi-auto.

Hunting. All of the above adds up to very limited use of semi-autos in hunting applications. The big bores such as the Wildey, AutoMag, LAR Grizzly and Desert Eagle are all very expensive, very heavy and while very accurate, still limited in the ammunition they can use. This leaves lesser cartridges such as the 10mm and .460Rowland. While very good in their own right and despite myths & legends surrounding the Hammer of Thor bear-flattening ability of the 10mm, they are still just deer rounds. With all the limitations outlined above.
 
the revolver w/moonclips is not form, it is function. I think that was proven back in 1917.

the moonclip is a "better mousetrap".

murf
 
jmr40 said:
Not a chance. Semi's have proven to be much more rugged and reliable than any revolver. Semi's are dependent on good ammo while revolvers will usually shoot anything you can fit in the chambers. But the quality ammo issue was solved decades ago. The myth remains however.

The only thing revolvers have over semi's is that the long barreled magnum revolvers offer more power and accuracy at long range than semi's. But for any application where you'd consider a revolver with a barrel less than 6" I'd take a semi every time.
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Nonsense. Semi's by their very nature are two-piece handguns and as I've said many times, damage/drop/loose your magazine(s) and you have a really slow single shot handgun.

That said, I own and carry both, though I rarely carry a semi. Living in an open carry state I don't have to worry, and pretty much don't care, if my handgun is seen. Like Bob Wright, I shoot SA's far, far better than anything else, so that's what I usually carry, especially since that's normally what I wear around the place and already have on when it's time to go to town for something.

But on the subject of moon clips, I picked up this ol' girl a few weeks ago-

1917%20SampW%20Left%20reduced_zps43x20cay.jpg

We're getting along quite well and she's far more accurate than I expected an 80+ year old military revolver to be as proven by these 25 yd. offhand groups.

SampW%201917%20Hornady%20loads_zpsiies4hz9.jpg

SampW%201917%20Cast%20RN%20load_zpsts8ejlsj.jpg

I know this kind of accuracy probably isn't required for typical self defense situations, but it is very reassuring.

I had never touched a moon clip until I bought this revolver, but am now a convert.

35W
 
BobWright said:
I carry a Single Action Ruger Blackhawk. That is the handgun that is most intuitive to me. I can clear leather and fire quicker with it than I can with any other type of handgun. And its .45 Colt bullet is capable of doing what is necessary to save my hide. I have lived with, carried, drawn and fired the Single Action enough that I am completely confident in its use.

Bob Wright
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That's awesome! I was tempted years ago to carry a SA Vaquero with a 3.5" barrel since it just felt so natural in my hand and stirred something in my cowboy DNA. But my paranoia of being outgunned got to me so I instead focused on semi-autos.
 
CraigC said:
Most good revolvers with at least a 3" barrel will be twice to three times as accurate as a service auto. To get a highly accurate auto, you need a hand-fit 1911. No centerfire auto can touch the most accurate revolver, period.
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Maybe revolver shooters are just better shots than most auto shooters?

My Ruger Blackhawk Bisley is the most accurate of all of my handguns. Barely. Certainly not twice to three times as accurate. Not sure where you are getting that statistic.

The Ruger gets 1" groups at 25yds. But my Glock G35, G29, and G19 all get close to that, with the G29 being the most accurate.

IMG_20170513_134447478.jpg

Even my little XDS 6-shot carry gun will do under 2" at 25yds, and I have yet to see any snubbie be capable of the same accuracy...

IMG_20170216_144257959_HDR.jpg IMG_20171216_104109459_HDR.jpg
 
25 yards for SD is a weird idea. If you are going to mug, or carjack, or sexually assault someone, you don't do it from 25 yards away. It is up close and personal.
 
Trey Veston said:
Maybe revolver shooters are just better shots than most auto shooters?

My Ruger Blackhawk Bisley is the most accurate of all of my handguns. Barely. Certainly not twice to three times as accurate. Not sure where you are getting that statistic.

The Ruger gets 1" groups at 25yds. But my Glock G35, G29, and G19 all get close to that, with the G29 being the most accurate.
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Shoot those striker fired semi's offhand at 25, then do the same with your Ruger. My guess is, that unless you're just terrible with your Ruger, that single action with a light crisp trigger pull will then be 2 to 3 times more accurate than te semi's.

35W
 
A Glock that shoots 1" at 25yds is a rare bird indeed. Most are going to be 3". Not to mention the challenge in managing the trigger and sights to shoot that well. Most revolvers will do 1" with preferred loads. Some will even do better than that. The better examples will do that at 50yds. The best at 100yds. Hence the "three times" comment.
 
StrawHat said:
Looks like a nice Commercial 1917 you have.

As many know, I am partial to the ACP revolver and the ones with the 4” tapered barrels are my EDC.

Kevin
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Actually that's one if the Brazilian exported/imported examples.

I'd like to have the sights similar in dimensions to the 21-4, then polished and re-blued.

35W
 
It seems to me that a Glock or Springfield in 10mm answers the question to a problem that really doesn’t exist.

Sam
 
Moon clips aren't a great solution in my experience. You end up needing specific combinations of ammo/primers and clips otherwise you will get light strikes. Then there is the problem of moon clips easily getting bent, which can create all sorts of issues. Lastly on long/thin magnum revolver cartridges, it is still tricky to get a smooth reload with moon clips, which is why .45 acp revolvers with moon clips are so popular I guess. The relatively short and wide cartridge with round nose bullets drops into cylinders so easily compared to an 8 shot moon clip of flat nose .357's. I was really excited about moon clips until I actually tried them in a .357.

I think the main advantages of revolvers are simply power. J-frame sized .357's and large revolvers up to .50 caliber etc. Outside of those two niches (powerful sub-compact and .44+ magnum calibers for dangerous game/hunting), semi auto wins. In a gunfight there is no doubt I'd take a reliable service pistol sized 9mm with the largest possible magazine if I couldn't have a semi automatic or select fire short barreled carbine.

I have a S&W 327 which is an 8 shot .357 cut for moon clips, and I have a hard time figuring out a situation in which I'd rather have it than a 9mm or .40 service auto with 12-18 rounds ready to go. The 327 was supposedly envisioned as a gun to be used while in close contact to a barrier like a riot shield, so maybe there's that (an autos slide could be impeded by contacting the barrier). If revolvers were better for general purpose gunfighting the military and police would still be issuing them as their standard duty sidearms.

With that said, I EDC a revolver at the moment, because I need .44 mag power for some of the large predators that reside in my state. I just carry speedloaders, no moon clips. Both have their place. Pistol shooting is a fun hobby for most of us, so just shoot what you enjoy. The odds of most of us actually using them in a life or death situation is quite low.
 
"In a gunfight there is no doubt I'd take a reliable service pistol sized 9mm with the largest possible magazine if I couldn't have a semi automatic or select fire short barreled carbine."

As a civilian, I just don't see myself being involved in a "gunfight" scenario. It is possible that I could get caught up in something like a convenience store robbery gone wrong and there might be a brief exchange of shots. I don't foresee a likely situation where a criminal wants to be involved in a lengthy shooting match. As soon as shots are fired, the police will be on their way. Where I live, that means they will be on the scene in literally one or two minutes. The perpetrator will want to leave the scene immediately, not be involved in some sort of long-range shootout with civilians. I am interested in protecting myself against a likely crime, such as being mugged or carjacked. It isn't very feasible that I would be involved in a 25-yard shootout where multiple magazines were emptied by both parties. I am not a LEO. If something bad is happening, my motivation is to get away from the area safely. The perpetrator or perpetrators won't want to stay in the area, either.

I totally understand a "more bullets is better" mindset, and I would be happy to have a large service pistol in my hand if I should ever need a firearm. However, I ran my errands yesterday with a 5-shot 38 snub in my pocket and felt okay about protecting myself against anyone wanting to take my truck or wallet. (They would have been deeply disappointed if they had succeeded in either one, BTW.)
 
Narwhal said:
Moon clips aren't a great solution in my experience. You end up needing specific combinations of ammo/primers and clips otherwise you will get light strikes. Then there is the problem of moon clips easily getting bent, which can create all sorts of issues. Lastly on long/thin magnum revolver cartridges, it is still tricky to get a smooth reload with moon clips, which is why .45 acp revolvers with moon clips are so popular I guess. The relatively short and wide cartridge with round nose bullets drops into cylinders so easily compared to an 8 shot moon clip of flat nose .357's. I was really excited about moon clips until I actually tried them in a .357.

I think the main advantages of revolvers are simply power. J-frame sized .357's and large revolvers up to .50 caliber etc. Outside of those two niches (powerful sub-compact and .44+ magnum calibers for dangerous game/hunting), semi auto wins. In a gunfight there is no doubt I'd take a reliable service pistol sized 9mm with the largest possible magazine if I couldn't have a semi automatic or select fire short barreled carbine.

I have a S&W 327 which is an 8 shot .357 cut for moon clips, and I have a hard time figuring out a situation in which I'd rather have it than a 9mm or .40 service auto with 12-18 rounds ready to go. The 327 was supposedly envisioned as a gun to be used while in close contact to a barrier like a riot shield, so maybe there's that (an autos slide could be impeded by contacting the barrier). If revolvers were better for general purpose gunfighting the military and police would still be issuing them as their standard duty sidearms.

With that said, I EDC a revolver at the moment, because I need .44 mag power for some of the large predators that reside in my state. I just carry speedloaders, no moon clips. Both have their place. Pistol shooting is a fun hobby for most of us, so just shoot what you enjoy. The odds of most of us actually using them in a life or death situation is quite low.
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I personally think moonclips rule! At least in the world of fast reloading revolvers. Been shooting moonclip fed revolvers for USPSA competition since 2007 and I can count on one hand the number of moonclip related failures I have had in competition over many 10,000's of rounds across three different N-frames. Assuming you are using quality moonclips and checking them correctly they have no effect on getting light strikes. I have run small rifle primers in 38 Special on moonclips and not had an ignition issues. Ignition issues seem to come more from guys trying to lighten their double action trigger pull far more often than anything related to the moonclip.

I agree moonclips work best with shorter fatter cartridges, the reason 45 ACP was King of UPSPSA for years but since the rule change in 2014 the 8-shooters are King and everyone is using 627/327 and the new King is the 929. I have hit 2-second reloads with 38-Special in my 627 when I do my part. In my experience a good round nose bullet is more important to a fast reload than a short-fat cartridges like 45 ACP. I would rather try to hit a fast reloads with 357 Mag and round nose bullets than 45 ACP with semi-wad cutters.

Moonclips for rimless revolvers are significantly more robust and far less picky about matching brass to moonclips than rimmed cartridges. On the other hand 38/357 is by far one of the finicky and yet with a little planning they are remarkably reliable once you have a combination that works. I am running Remington 38 Short Colt brass on Revolver Supply moonclips and that combination has been 100% for me in competition.

I carry a moonclip fed 442 J-frame revolver and hunt with a moonclip fed 610 N-frame. There are ways to protect the moonclip in both situations. I have never found moonclips to be a liability greater than the advantage they give for fast reliable reloads.

joVnDfbl.jpg

Rambling opinion, YMMV
 
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I own mainly revolvers because I reload exclusively, and because I don't like chasing and losing brass at the range.
I have no interest in action or combat sports so I have no use for anything else.
As far as semi-autos go I have always preferred a 1911A1, though I don't own one now, or plan to buy another one soon.
I find that all other semi-auto pistols leave me cold.
But, for personal carry I would probably select a more compact (if boring) semi-automatic pistol.
 
SharpDog said:
OK, I have many wheelguns, almost all in .44 Mag with four .357 Mag and a .41 Mag. I also have many semi's. Looking at what I have I see I have mostly powerful revolvers and less powerful semis that have more ammo capacity.

I am now noticing (prolly they've always been prominant and I'm now noticing) an increase in revolvers with moon clips. Rationale being moonclips are easier to use than speedloaders.

My (flame away) question is why get a revolver with a speedloader when you can just get a semi.

I know, I know revolvers are more reliable (e.g. than a Glock)

Now I admit that I generally like the looks of revolvers more then semis and some of that is nostalgia to old western TV, movies and novels.

And I'm fine with that.

Is there anything I'm missing here (likely there is and hence the thread) or is the revolver with moonclip thing just looks and nostalgia ?

here are the requisite gun pics for a pretty wheel gun and a pretty semi:

View attachment 836870 View attachment 836871

View attachment 836872View attachment 836873
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Actually with high quality ammo available today a revolver is no longer more reliable than a modern quality pistol. I admit I was surprised to find out there is revolver torture test on U-tube.
I bought extra light revolver due to low weight and the fact that it can be discharged from inside of coat pocket. It will likely be legal to own when they ban semi-autos.
Does that help answer your question?
 
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