Stovepipe in CZ75 Compact

[Cloudpeak]

I have very occasional stovepipes in my CZ Compact (9mm).

My go-to troubleshooting guy (1911Tuner) on the M1911.org forum stated (in regard to 1911's):

The vertical stovepipe. Extractor tension can be a player, but is most often caused by short recoil. Extractor tension is the usual culprit in the horizontal stovepipe.

I am shooting reduced loads (Lee 105 gr SWC with 3.5 grains of W231) and I did install a 16 # recoil spring (17# is factory) as the brass was not ejecting very far and I was getting very occasional stovepipes on the fired brass (one out of 30-50 rounds). I suspected short cycling. (Darned if I can remember now if I'm getting horizontal or vertical stovepipes)

From some of what I've read, folks think the CZ's have weak extractor springs. My extractor holds a loaded round firmly in place so I think I'm OK in that department.

I did notice that I got stovepipes on only one mag. The stovepipes seem to occur after about 4 or 5 rounds. Both mags seem to have weak springs (how they feel when loading with cartridges) when compared to: my 1911's and the XD and M&P I owned. I've replaced the spring in the offending mag with a Wolff +5% spring and this mag now feels "normal" when loading. I haven't shot it yet but am betting this may solve the problem. But, I'm having trouble figuring out how a weak mag spring comes into play.

I do have a 14# recoil spring on hand but am hesitant to use it for fear of "under-springing" and doing possible damage to the pistol. How do I know if I've gone too far when reducing recoil spring rate when shooting the above loads?

Thanks,

Cloudpeak

 

[Jim Watson]

That is not a heavy load and a trial with the 14 lb recoil spring won't hurt the gun.

What does it do with factory loads or full charges with jacketed bullets?

I went round and round with my CZ75 on recoil springs and magazines but ended up with a new extractor and spring. The spring might have fixed it but the extractor was not expensive at the time.

 

[burningsquirrels]

if it's only on one mag, it could be the mag springs. i just replaced the ones that came with my 40b that were several years old, they were $15 for two wolff springs through miossi gun works.

as a 'free' trial and error thing, you could try stretching your extractor spring and see if that helps. czcustom.com (angus) has extra power extractor springs for $3, which i have installed and ejects brass a good 8 feet, but i'm also shooting full power ipsc loads.

 

[Cloudpeak]

What does it do with factory loads or full charges with jacketed bullets?

It's 100% when using the factory recoil spring and factory loads (although I really don't have that many factory loads through the pistol. Maybe a couple of hundred at most.)

Cloudpeak

 

[burningsquirrels]

it's probably not hitting the extractor hard enough. try a weaker spring.

alternatively from THR, you can try the czforums.com area in the gunsmithing and also the 'ask angus' sections.

 

[armoredman]

I agree some older mags had weaker springs, and many switched to Wolff +10% springs with success. I personally have not had any failures in PCR or PO1 with reduced power loads, (my first cast loads were so gentle they were deposited on my arm.), and I have all factory springs.
You could call 1-800-955-4486, and ask to speak to Justin in parts, or Mike the gunsmith.

 

[Pilot]

Lee 105 gr SWC

That is a light bullet for the 9MM Luger cartridge. I wouldn't go below 115 grain. I also suspect short cycling, maybe also bump up your load slightly as 3.5 grains of W231 is very low. For light loads, I use the minimum Hogdon recommends which is 4.3 grains W231/HP38 with a 115 grain LRN or LSWC.

 

[CZguy]

That is a light bullet for the 9MM Luger cartridge. I wouldn't go below 115 grain. I also suspect short cycling, maybe also bump up your load slightly as 3.5 grains of W231 is very low. For light loads, I use the minimum Hogdon recommends which is 4.3 grains W231/HP38 with a 115 grain LRN or LSWC.

This sounds good to me. If you try it, please post the results.

 

[RDA 226sig]

My CZ75 was stovepiping on some light handloads that I built for my wife to shoot. Bumping the powder charge up a couple tenths of a grain fixed the problem.

 

[rbernie]

I do not understand the fascination with increased-power recoil springs. They generally do more harm than good, from causing short-stroking (FTE and/or FTF) to actually causing accelerated wear from slamming the barrel/slide into battery far harder than the gun designer specified. I can only think of one gun (Marlin Camp Gun) that can be rightfully identified as truly undersprung from the factory.

I must admit that I have in the past succumbed to peer pressure and 'upgraded' the recoil springs in my CZ75Bs and CZ97Bs. The CZ Forum was rife with tales of greatness that would accompany such an upgrade. Sadly and predicably, in the end the pistols always worked better with the stock recoil spring rate in 'em. The only spring upgrade that a CZ needs is a Wolff extractor spring.

Put a factory-weight recoil spring back in.

 

[CZguy]

I must admit that I have in the past succumbed to peer pressure and 'upgraded' the recoil springs in my CZ75Bs and CZ97Bs. The CZ Forum was rife with tales of greatness that would accompany such an upgrade. Sadly and predicably, in the end the pistols always worked better with the stock recoil spring rate in 'em. The only spring upgrade that a CZ needs is a Wolff extractor spring.

Put a factory-weight recoil spring back in.

I have had exactly the same experience. Plus one for factory weight springs.

 

[mattk]

I think your loads are too light.

 

[Cloudpeak]

That is a light bullet for the 9MM Luger cartridge. I wouldn't go below 115 grain. I also suspect short cycling, maybe also bump up your load slightly as 3.5 grains of W231 is very low. For light loads, I use the minimum Hogdon recommends which is 4.3 grains W231/HP38 with a 115 grain LRN or LSWC

I like the load. I've shot over a 1,200 rounds of this load with zero problems through the CZ Compact but recently have started having stovepipes and this occurs with the factory 17# recoil spring and the 16 and 14 lb. Wolff springs. New mag springs made no difference. I received an extractor spring from Mike at CZ today but won't be able to try it out until I finish up a job in a few days.

I do not understand the fascination with increased-power recoil springs.

Neither do I, rbernie. I'm not using increased-power springs. I'm using reduced power for reduced loads per my original post.

What does it do with factory loads or full charges with jacketed bullets?

You know, Jim, I don't have any idea. I don't believe I've even shot any factory loads through this pistol. I bought the CZ to shoot plates with and just generally have a good time. I did test loadings and worked up an accurate load with both the Lee 124 gr. RN and Lee 105 gr. SWC using W231 and just called it good.

(BTW, the picture shows a 5 shot group. This load works great for shooting plates!)

Thanks,

Cloudpeak

 

[Cloudpeak]

I received a new extractor spring from CZ and installed it yesterday. Of course the new spring was longer when compared to the old spring as the old spring had taken a set. The spring wire diameter was larger on the new spring when compared to the original factory spring. That sounds promising.

I also received 3 extractor springs that I'd ordered from Wolff. They are a bit longer than the new CZ spring. I didn't remove them from the bag to measure diameter yet.

Now, if I can just get a break from work, I can commence function testing.

Cloupdeak

 

[Pilot]

Interested to see if the new extractor spring fixes the problem. I have also started getting Wolff factory power spings instead of extra power springs for all my guns. I don't shoot much +p so, I don't think its necessary. In fact you may benefit from a reduced power recoil spring for that light load.

 

[rhoggman]

did this work? I am researching a lot of this due to FTE / extraction problems I am having in my CZ 75 BD Police

 

[Cloudpeak]

I think the extra power extractor spring helped a bit. I think my main problem in reliability was that the CZ factory mags did not like the 105gr. Lee SWC. Every once-in-awhile, the magazine would "lose control" of the round before it fed up under the extractor and chambered. The Compact never missed a lick with Lee 124gr RN bullets. Probably a COAL problem. But, when I first started shooting the 105's, I don't think I had a problem. It developed as the round count went up. Perhaps the mag lips widened enough through use to cause problems with the shorter rounds but no problem with the 124's.

Anyway, water under the bridge for me. I don't think I've shot the CZ since buying my STI Trojan in 9mm in Oct. 2008.