Student suspended from Junior High for drawing a gun

[Robert Hairless]

From the KPHO web site, POSTED: 3:06 pm PDT August 21, 2007 and UPDATED: 8:04 pm PDT August 21, 2007.

The article doesn't say whether the child was quick or slow on the draw. My reading of this and similar articles about children penalized by their schools for such behavior, however, does lead me to conclude that the educational system of this country would be best served by involuntarily committing each and every school administrator, school board, and school teacher to a maximum security institution for the insane. Taxpayers who support such people probably should have priority for institutionalization but since much of their money is being wasted on lunacy they probably will have to wait their turn until more such institutions are constructed.

Student Suspended For Drawing Gun

5-Day Suspension Cut To 3 Days

QUEEN CREEK, Ariz. -- A 13-year-old student who drew a picture of a gun on his homework at Payne Junior High School in Queen Creek was initially suspended for at least five days, but his father was able to slash it to three days.

The Mosteller family moved to Chandler from Colorado Springs only four weeks ago, but it's not the kind of greeting Paula Mosteller said she was expecting.

Her 13-year-old son was suspended from school because he drew a picture of a gun on homework.

"My son is a very good boy," Mosteller said.


"He doesn't get into trouble. There was nothing on the paper that would signify that it was a threat of any form," she said.

The principal at Payne Junior High School kept the actual drawing.

The picture was enough to get him suspended, initially, for five days.

"He was just basically doodling and not thinking a lot about it," Mosteller said.

CBS 5 News tried to get more details from the Chandler Unified School District but were told, "Federal privacy law forbids the school or district from discussing student discipline."

"We're not advocates for guns," Mosteller said.

"We don't have guns in our home. We don't promote the use of guns. My son was just basically doodling on a piece of paper," she said.

After the father went to the school and talked to the principal, the suspension was trimmed to three days.

CBS 5 News investigated the rules students must follow while at school. There's nothing in a portion of the student handbook that addresses conduct to indicate the drawing of a weapon poses threat.

There is a rule that says students should not engage in "Threatening an educational institution by interference with or disruption of the school."

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Robert

I think this is a duplicate.

 

[Robert Hairless]

Darnit. You're correct, Arfin. My apologies to all, especially the moderators, for littering the place.

 

[oobray]

Well, since it has not yet been closed, I'll go ahead and chime in. I don't think there are enough details on this story to form an opinion. The student could have been targeted by someone school administrator who has very strong anti-gun ideals. Or, the full story could be that the doodle contained more than a gun, and was infact a threatening drawing. We only have the statements of the father which is obviously biased. More info is needed.

 

[fletcher]

Wait, a 13 year old drew that? I was thinking somewhere around 2nd grade when I saw it.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I was thinking somewhere around 2nd grade when I saw it.

Thats kinda what I was thinking.

The school administration there should spend less time worrying about pictures of guns and more time investing in art classes. That is a horrible drawing for that age.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Or, the full story could be that the doodle contained more than a gun, and was infact a threatening drawing. We only have the statements of the father which is obviously biased. More info is needed.

I thought the same, initially. However, the drawing in question is shown in the linked article. Not very threatening -- even has several smiley faces on it.

 

[Prof. A. Wickwire]

That's not a picture of a gun, it is an incomplete drawing of a space ship!

Notice the windows, the person walking on the top and the other person descending from the lower deck. Also note the exhaust thruster on the right.

So what it comes down to is that students cannot draw anything that an administrator thinks looks like a gun.

Sincerely,

Prof. A. Wickwire

 

[TexasRifleman]

That's not a picture of a gun, it is an incomplete drawing of a space ship!

I do believe you are correct. I showed this to my 11 year old and that was his answer ....... "spaceship".

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Hmmm, I don't think that suspension would fly in the 9th Circuit if the parents wanted to test it in court. No substantial disruption, no true threat.

 

[MKEITH]

Well, my wife had no idea what that drawing was, and even after I told her it was a gun, she didn't believe me.She had to read the artical for herself.I'm betting high that the kid was asked what the drawing was,and then the fertilizer hit the ventilator.Let that be a lesson to us all.No matter what you draw,if you are asked, it's either a puppy or a kitty.

 

[Superpsy]

*sigh...I work in schools. Zero tolerance policies enforced like this one are silly. It's kind of sad when administrators and teachers either aren't allowed or refuse to think for themselves.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Schools punish all the wrong people and nurture all the wrong ones these days.

All in all, this doesn't surprise me.

 

[oobray]

Unfortunate

It's very unfortunate that this child was punished for that drawing. It definately did not seem threatening to me. However, maybe the child gave some threatening explanation for it. I do know though that if I were that child's parent I would be very, very upset and definately filing grievences against the school.

 

[Don Gwinn]

The school is claiming, as I understand it, that he wrote something threatening below the drawing. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. We need more facts.

I will tell you that I have personally witnessed a case where a student was expelled for walking onto his morning school bus and announcing that he was going to shoot two students who were two grades younger than he was. His mother was much more concerned that he had been allowed to check out a book on "special forces of the world" which featured several pages of guns.

I could easily imagine her going to the news media claiming that her son had been expelled for something to do with that book--and just like the school in this news feature, the school in that case would have been barred by law from bringing out the facts.

Even what I've told you is a bit of a gray area, but since I haven't identified the student or the school, and I've attended or worked at seven schools over the years, I don't think I've violated confidentiality.

 

[Old Fuff]

The school is claiming, as I understand it, that he wrote something threatening below the drawing.

Perhaps, but the school is now on the defensive and has to claim something to increase the justification for their actions.

It is my feeling that if they had a solid case they wouldn't have reduced the punishment, and if there were truly valid or specific threats he would have been expelled, not suspended.

 

[Steel Talon]

Even my 10 year old didnt see this as a gun. She identified the picture as a street and sidewalk scene, when I showed it to her.

 

[Dorryn]

Looks like a building to me.

Knee-jerk reactions are funny... back when I was in Junior High and High School, I used to post just about every picture I could cut out of Guns & Ammo into my locker. Id probably be arrested nowadays.

However, not all of us teachers are so silly. Its important to define what is or is not acceptable behavior/speech/artwork. I once reported a 6th grade student for sticking crumpled up paper underneath his shirt and saying, " I have a gun."... even though it was painfully obvious he was just looking for attention and wouldn't know a gun from a Twinkie. But drawing a (lousy) picture is no grounds for punishment.

 

[Deanimator]

The school is claiming, as I understand it, that he wrote something threatening below the drawing. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. We need more facts.

I can CLAIM that the principle is part of the inner circle of Al Qaeda.

If the kid DID write something threatening, they'd show it. Of course they could CLAIM that "This is a gun." was "threatening".

Barring facts undisclosed by the school for no apparent reason, this is probably going to end badly for the school.

 

[longrifleman]

Apparently, way too many school administrators don't seem to understand that it would be extremely difficult to come up with a better advertisement for home schooling than this stupidity if they tried.

The more I see our PC school systems at work, the more I think we need to completely abolish govt run schooling.

 

[Hal8000]

Last year my son got in trouble on the bus by drawing a HALO (from the Xbox game) plasma rifle and was sent to the principles office. He was in the third grade.
The principle was very understanding and had to respond to the "threat" that the bus monitor had reported. My son was not punished but I got a call from the principle where she said she was going to keep it from the police because there was no obvious threat involved. Needless to say I was not happy and gave her a piece of my mind (which I still am missing). Told her that my boy would NOT be punished for this horrible deed. It turned out to be a good object lesson for him. Now he better understands the idea of what is Politically Correct. He's much wiser today as it scared him to death...
He shoots HIS .22 with me, is a very good shot and is quite safety conscious but now he understands that guns are not bad, it's peoples perception of them that's bad. He'll not be drawing any more space guns away from our property...
The lessons of learning how to be a good Ant is not as easy as it once was!

“In England, if you commit a crime, the police don't have a gun and you don't have a gun. If you commit a crime, the police will say "Stop, or I'll say stop again.”
Robbin Williams

 

[Don Gwinn]

If we're going to discuss the legal issues, this thread might belong here. If we're going to rant and rave, it goes bye bye. This is not L&P. This is the Legal forum.

 

[Geno]

Sheesh! We JUST had one of these...here we go again. Okay, I am a former junior high/high school principal. The Zero Tolerance Law holds that to be expelled:

1) the Child must knowingly bring the "weapon" to school;
2) the item must truly be a weapon; (Pictures don't cut it!)
3) the child must have brought the weapon with intent to do great bodily harm or murder, or damage to the school property.

Doc2005

Here is the link...is it the same one? If it is, we should make one of them.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3656136&posted=1#post3656136

Oh, yes, it is the same incident (school).

Doc2005

 

[Carl N. Brown]

And what was our lesson to day, boys and girls?
We learned that authorities are stupid and arbitrary.

I'm the kid who gave a 5th grade book report on
Cyril M. Kornbluth's Not This August.