Studies: Interest in Hunting Fading
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redneck2
Member
We just had a real nice rebuild of the range at Kingsbury, about 20 minutes from where I live. S of LaPorte about 10 minutes on Hwy 35. I don't use it because I have plenty of private land a lot closer
There's also a nice range at either Jasper-Pulaski or Winimac (I forget which).
For shotgunners, I'd suggest trying sporting clays. If you haven't done it, it's a ton of fun
There's also a nice range at either Jasper-Pulaski or Winimac (I forget which).
For shotgunners, I'd suggest trying sporting clays. If you haven't done it, it's a ton of fun
Warren
Member
I'm interested!
I'm going to try that post a notice at the R&G club tactic and see if that will get me a tutor/guide.
I'm going to try that post a notice at the R&G club tactic and see if that will get me a tutor/guide.
sumpnz
Member
Selfdfenz - I would be lucky if I still lived there. My old house was only about a 5-7 minute drive from the fairgrounds. Now that I've moved to the Phoenix area (northern Mesa) I have to figure out where to go shooting up here. Rio Salado seems like a pretty good place, and is fairly close, but I need to actually get up there before passing judgment.
Bear Gulch
Member
And that's why we hunters need to be actively recruiting new hunters! Invite a kid, teach hunter ed, do something! Most of us just want to persue our hobbies and call it good; the days when we can do that are over. If we can build an image of hunters as concerned stewards and teachers, then we'll be on our way. But we need to get active. I teach about 150 -200 new hunters a year (in both gun and bow) as a volunteer. I do it because I want to preserve my hunting lifestyle.
Cool Hand Luke 22:36
member
Interest in conducting bogus studies never seems to fade however.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
sumpnz, don't they still have that shooting complex north of Phoenix, on 74 west of I-17? And I vaguely recall some comment about another site under development on the south side, but I don't recall details...
CHL, what's bogus about a decline in sales of hunting licenses? That's hard data. The studies try to figure out the why of the numbers, and the article of the first post has comments which parallel what's been found to be the case here in Texas.
Art
CHL, what's bogus about a decline in sales of hunting licenses? That's hard data. The studies try to figure out the why of the numbers, and the article of the first post has comments which parallel what's been found to be the case here in Texas.
Art
sumpnz
Member
Art - Are you talking about Ben Avery? If so, yes it's still there, but I've not yet been. I don't recall hearing anything about a shooting range on the south side of Phx, but then again I've only been up here for a few months and haven't had the luxury of much time to explore yet.
Cool Hand Luke 22:36
member
I am unconvinced.
How many hunting licenses are bought and then never used, or only used once?
Perhaps the dedicated hunters still go out regularly and it's only the people at the margins who are dropping out, so that the total number of man-hours spent hunting is relatively unchanged.
I'd like how they arrive at this figure:
""Across the country, the number of hunters declined from 14.06 million to 13.03 million, or 7.3 percent, from 1991 to 2001, according to the Census Bureau and the Fish and Wildlife Service. The drop was greater in the West -- 9.6 percent, from 2.46 million to 2.22 million.""
sumpnz
Member
CHL - Just a guess but ya think that maybe they looked at the total number of hunting permits sold????? States do keep track of that kind of data. Unless you happen to purchase a lifetime license (which takes ~30 years to be cost effective) you have to buy one every year. WRT your man-hours argument, why do you think so many eastern states have such a problem with overpopulation of deer? It's at least partly because there are too few hunters out there taking deer. If the dedicated hunters were really picking up the slack that situation would not have developed, or at least not to the degree it has.
birddog
Member
I think almost everyone posting here has made valid points. It's a connected web of problems, each sharing some importance in the decline of hunting. But the fact that hunting is in decline can not be denied.
As I look across the road from my house right now, there are 8 new homes (and I live in a semi-rural area). Precisely upon the spots where 3 of these new homes sit, I've killed 2 deer, a handful of pheasants and countless rabbits. Never again.
For my money, habitat destruction is the leading factor in the overall decline of the sport. Ok, so I've lost some hunting areas, and I found others. But finding them -- and people willing to let you hunt their private property -- is getting harder and harder. Let's face it, hunting is fun, but hard work. The harder it is to find a place to hunt, the less likely someone is to invest the time and money in future hunts, or in introducing new hunters to the sport.
I try to do my part. I've introduced many people to hunting, including my children, and that's the only way we're going to perpetuate the sport. I have a real job, etc etc, but my passion is the outdoors. It's made me write magazine articles, books, trying hard just to tell others how great the sport of hunting is. The thought of a future generations not knowing the excitement of a deer or bird hunt, or watching ducks come into the decoys, is very sad.
But the future does look bleak.
Keep doing your part to keep hunting alive in this country.
As I look across the road from my house right now, there are 8 new homes (and I live in a semi-rural area). Precisely upon the spots where 3 of these new homes sit, I've killed 2 deer, a handful of pheasants and countless rabbits. Never again.
For my money, habitat destruction is the leading factor in the overall decline of the sport. Ok, so I've lost some hunting areas, and I found others. But finding them -- and people willing to let you hunt their private property -- is getting harder and harder. Let's face it, hunting is fun, but hard work. The harder it is to find a place to hunt, the less likely someone is to invest the time and money in future hunts, or in introducing new hunters to the sport.
I try to do my part. I've introduced many people to hunting, including my children, and that's the only way we're going to perpetuate the sport. I have a real job, etc etc, but my passion is the outdoors. It's made me write magazine articles, books, trying hard just to tell others how great the sport of hunting is. The thought of a future generations not knowing the excitement of a deer or bird hunt, or watching ducks come into the decoys, is very sad.
But the future does look bleak.
Keep doing your part to keep hunting alive in this country.
Selfdfenz
Member
birddog,
Good points.
In the years I've been hunting I hate to think how many times and in how many places all over the SE US that has happened.
I used to think the area I grew up in was a place progress had bypassed and frankly I was happy about that. It's amazing how much development is taking place in the area now and on a down, down, down economy for that area. I can’t figure out where the $ and people keep coming from. Land use in much of the area had changed from corn and small crops to shrubbery or just simply had houses built on it. My old deer lease (which produced a bear or two on occasion) is becoming a very upscale development. I can’t afford one of the houses that will be going up there.
S-
Good points.
In the years I've been hunting I hate to think how many times and in how many places all over the SE US that has happened.
I used to think the area I grew up in was a place progress had bypassed and frankly I was happy about that. It's amazing how much development is taking place in the area now and on a down, down, down economy for that area. I can’t figure out where the $ and people keep coming from. Land use in much of the area had changed from corn and small crops to shrubbery or just simply had houses built on it. My old deer lease (which produced a bear or two on occasion) is becoming a very upscale development. I can’t afford one of the houses that will be going up there.
S-
spartacus2002
Member
I went to the Hampton Roads Convention Center gunshow this weekend. I was shocked to see that probably 95% of the people standing in the VERY long line for tickets were men over 45.
I fear that's an indicator.
I fear that's an indicator.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
I occasionally get a table at the Odessa gun show, and have made a point in recent years to drop prices to "kids'n'family" buyers. Less expensive stuff, sure, but in good working order. Sorta neat to sell a kid his first .22 rifle or 20-gauge shotgun, priced where the folks can afford it...
"Ranchettes" and the syndrome of "Five acres, five miles from town" have cost us a lot of hunting lands. Liability problems also hurt, along with landowners' refusals due to abuse of their property by idiots.
Art
"Ranchettes" and the syndrome of "Five acres, five miles from town" have cost us a lot of hunting lands. Liability problems also hurt, along with landowners' refusals due to abuse of their property by idiots.
Art
cracked butt
Member
Those men might not have the internet savvy of younger gun enthusiasts who bypass the jerky, white supremist literature, and beanie baby vendors by using the 'online gunshow.'
Cool Hand Luke 22:36
member
I am sure they did, and that is the fatal flaw in their study. The number of hunting licenses sold is not necessarily an accurate reflection of the number of people out hunting, lots of people poach or otherwise ignore the law. In addition, more people buy licenses in anticipation of hunting than actually use them.
In addition, we are at war, with hundreds of thousands of young people who might otherwise buy licenses and be out hunting, deployed overseas instead. Does that reflect a decline in interest in hunting? No.
cracked butt
Member
I just did a search on gun deer license sales in my state. This chart shows that licenses over the last 10 years have remained pretty steady, or had a slight upward trend, but declined for a year due to CWD, not because of social reasons.
The sale of conservation patron licenses steadily increased over the same period of time. This license includes small game, archery+bonus tags, rifle-deer + bonus tags, fishing license, turkey and bear permits, pheasant tags, a state parks pass, and if IIRC state trout, pheasant, and waterfowl stamps. I'm not sure on the stamps because coincidentally, the last patron License I bought was in 2002.
As far as the decline of hunting goes, its total bunk. I haven't looked at Pennsylvania's license sales yet, but Wisconsin is only second to Pennsylvania in the number of hunters, and the only thing that made any kind of dent or decline in sales was the CWD outbreak.
Edited to add URL: http://dnr.wi.gov/org/caer/cs/reports/2003/deerreport2003.htm
The sale of conservation patron licenses steadily increased over the same period of time. This license includes small game, archery+bonus tags, rifle-deer + bonus tags, fishing license, turkey and bear permits, pheasant tags, a state parks pass, and if IIRC state trout, pheasant, and waterfowl stamps. I'm not sure on the stamps because coincidentally, the last patron License I bought was in 2002.
As far as the decline of hunting goes, its total bunk. I haven't looked at Pennsylvania's license sales yet, but Wisconsin is only second to Pennsylvania in the number of hunters, and the only thing that made any kind of dent or decline in sales was the CWD outbreak.
Edited to add URL: http://dnr.wi.gov/org/caer/cs/reports/2003/deerreport2003.htm
sumpnz
Member
CHL - I'd have a hard time believing that people who used to get licenses have since gone into poaching in anything beyond negliable numbers. I also have a hard time believing that the decline has been a result of people finally giving up after years of buying but not using their license.
WRT the military members, how many do you really think are hunters? Some sure. But ask military members here how many of their fellow soldiers are hunters. I'd wager not nearly enough to explain the drop in hunters going afield.
Bottom line is, there's way to many people who grew up like I did. My folks wouldn't let let have so much as a BB gun growing up, nevermind a real firearm. My dad, when he was in the Army during Vietnam (luckilly he didn't go there) had a chance to go deer hunting. Said he had a deer dead to rights. All he had to do was fire. But he couldn't do it. So, he most likely figured "Like father, like son" and so even when I showed an interest he did everything to discourage that interest. Most of my friends growing up had a similar family circumstance so I didn't have a chance to get into hunting with them either. Most people growing up in that kind of environment never get into hunting. I'm one the few that has. More than anything, it is things like that that have driven the decline in hunting.
WRT the military members, how many do you really think are hunters? Some sure. But ask military members here how many of their fellow soldiers are hunters. I'd wager not nearly enough to explain the drop in hunters going afield.
Bottom line is, there's way to many people who grew up like I did. My folks wouldn't let let have so much as a BB gun growing up, nevermind a real firearm. My dad, when he was in the Army during Vietnam (luckilly he didn't go there) had a chance to go deer hunting. Said he had a deer dead to rights. All he had to do was fire. But he couldn't do it. So, he most likely figured "Like father, like son" and so even when I showed an interest he did everything to discourage that interest. Most of my friends growing up had a similar family circumstance so I didn't have a chance to get into hunting with them either. Most people growing up in that kind of environment never get into hunting. I'm one the few that has. More than anything, it is things like that that have driven the decline in hunting.
Nathanael_Greene
Member
I think the decline in hunters is real, and has many causes.
Here in Texas, hunting is about 5% sport and 95% business.
If you want to get started deer hunting with a rifle, you'd better be prepared to pony up some serious money. For middle-aged guys who want to get into hunting and who have no connections, it's an expensive proposition. And not everyone is prepared to drop ~$1000 just to find out whether or not he likes something.
I'd think that Texas could reinvigorate the hunting tradition by aggressively promoting feral hog hunting (ubiquitous, good sport, tasty, eradication is environmentally beneficial, etc.). I'd love to be able to go hog hunting once every other month or so.
Overall, it seems to me that hunting is becoming more and more expensive and practiced by fewer and fewer people.
Here in Texas, hunting is about 5% sport and 95% business.
If you want to get started deer hunting with a rifle, you'd better be prepared to pony up some serious money. For middle-aged guys who want to get into hunting and who have no connections, it's an expensive proposition. And not everyone is prepared to drop ~$1000 just to find out whether or not he likes something.
I'd think that Texas could reinvigorate the hunting tradition by aggressively promoting feral hog hunting (ubiquitous, good sport, tasty, eradication is environmentally beneficial, etc.). I'd love to be able to go hog hunting once every other month or so.
Overall, it seems to me that hunting is becoming more and more expensive and practiced by fewer and fewer people.
A couple of weeks ago I worked (for free) at the local gun and horn show - I check guns in that people are bringing for trade/sale and make sure they're unloaded and put a zip tie on them for (I'm told) legal requirements. I got home and commented to my wife that the gun culture is aging - I sat at my little table all day and 9 out 10 people who came in were geezers. Even the evening/after school crowd was old.
priv8ter
Member
Well, I don't know...
I'll agree with the connections thing...but not so much with the price.
I see all kinds of used scope/rifle combos for sale around her in the $350-$400 range. For my wifes first deer rifle, I spent right around $500, and that was because I spent just as much on a scope as I did on the NEF Handi-Rifle I got her. I took the budget approach because I didn't want to drop big bucks if she didn't like hunting.
I mean, what does a new set of golf clubs cost? I have seen drivers that cost more than new rifles! And a round of golf at a cheap course costs what a box of .270 rounds costs me!
Looks like I need to start shopping at Art's gunshows.
greg
I'll agree with the connections thing...but not so much with the price.
I see all kinds of used scope/rifle combos for sale around her in the $350-$400 range. For my wifes first deer rifle, I spent right around $500, and that was because I spent just as much on a scope as I did on the NEF Handi-Rifle I got her. I took the budget approach because I didn't want to drop big bucks if she didn't like hunting.
I mean, what does a new set of golf clubs cost? I have seen drivers that cost more than new rifles! And a round of golf at a cheap course costs what a box of .270 rounds costs me!
Looks like I need to start shopping at Art's gunshows.
greg
Nathanael_Greene
Member
priv8ter, the rifle is the cheap part. Finding a place to hunt deer in Texas is the trick.
Around here, a serviceable Marlin 30-30, even scoped, can be found for about $150.
As big as Texas is, there's not much in the way of public hunting land, so you're forced to look for a lease, which can run from about $500 (if you're lucky) up into the thousands.
If you don't know much about hunting (not to mention cleaning, quartering, etc.), you may want to take a guided hunt. There are deer-hunting trips on game ranches or private land, but they're not exactly cheap, either. At the foolish extreme end, you've got guided trophy hunts that can top $25,000, but even a moderately-priced hunt can run about $1000.
(For what it's worth, I'm a middle-aged guy who took up deer hunting last year, and I'll bet I spent a grand, easy--and didn't shoot a deer.)
Around here, a serviceable Marlin 30-30, even scoped, can be found for about $150.
As big as Texas is, there's not much in the way of public hunting land, so you're forced to look for a lease, which can run from about $500 (if you're lucky) up into the thousands.
If you don't know much about hunting (not to mention cleaning, quartering, etc.), you may want to take a guided hunt. There are deer-hunting trips on game ranches or private land, but they're not exactly cheap, either. At the foolish extreme end, you've got guided trophy hunts that can top $25,000, but even a moderately-priced hunt can run about $1000.
(For what it's worth, I'm a middle-aged guy who took up deer hunting last year, and I'll bet I spent a grand, easy--and didn't shoot a deer.)
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