Subsonic 147gn 9mm Powders & Loads

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sequins

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Hello friends,

I'm curious to hear what powders and loads you've found success with loading 9mm 147gn rounds. Lead, Plated, Jacketed, or best of all Jacketed Hollowpoint data like XTP, Gold Dot, or HST.

I'm looking to load up for a suppressed 16.1" carbine and if possible I'd like to use the same loads in a 5.3" handgun.

I've currently got some CFE Pistol amd gold dot 147s I was gonna try, aiming for 950-975 FPS.

Thanks!
 
With any luck I'll be running some 147 grain Missouri bullets (FP coated) over the chrono Monday morning. Powder will be CFE Pistol and pistol will be a 3.1" bbl P365. I expect somewhat lower numbers than listed on the Hodgdon data page but will be interesting regardless. I haven't settled on the charge yet but probably will split the difference between starting and max charge they list.
 
N310 is the best I have used with non jacketed but I'd go for N320 or titegroup with jacketed.
 
I've loaded 147 gr or heavier with WSF, Ramshot Competition, Sport Pistol, WST, and Red Dot.

Just about any fast to medium burn rate powder will work.
 
What's wrong with the CFE -Pistol you are now using? I'm thinking a charge of 4.0gr/4.1gr will keep the velocity down below 975 fps in the Carbine. The same load should shoot well in the pistol all be it at a reduced velocity probably around 900 fps. It would be easier if you have access to a chrono. I'm only guessing the numbers from published sources.
 
I find that slower powders work better with heavier bullets. 'Slow' is a relative word, so I would think that something on the order of Power Pistol or Unique will give better velocities than Bullseye or W231. Will also give a bit wider range between starting and proof loads. Some experimentation for accuracy as always.
 
Does anyone have any 147gr 9mm loads chrono'd through a carbine ? I know most data I see when looking at 9mm pistol loads and the 147gr bullets are well below super sonic . How much more velocity is expected from a carbine ? Most of the data I see is between 900 and 950 fps for a 9mm pistol Is the carbine going to get another 200fps ? If not , Load up any combo you want and don't push it hard and you should be GTG .
 
3.1gr of titegroup under a 147gr coated bullet. Runs in the 900fps range in all my 9mm handguns. It ran in the Ruger PCC 9 but it didn't group well and we didn't chrono it.
 
I have these chrono numbers for a RMR 147 FP (heavy Match Winner)
Mixed range brass, S+B SP, 5" 9mm 1911
String: 1
Date: 6/17/2018
Time: 2:55:42 PM
Grains: 147
Hi Vel: 914
Low Vel: 899
Ave Vel: 908
Ext Spread: 15
Std Dev: 6
4.0 CFE-P RMR 147 FN FMJ OAL 1.075
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
899 132.153 263.778
913 134.211 272.057
914 134.358 272.654
911 133.917 270.867
903 132.741 266.13

Xtreme 147 RN
String: 8
Date: 3/26/2017
Time: 11:05:53 AM
Grains: 147
Hi Vel: 881
Low Vel: 864
Ave Vel: 872
Ext Spread: 17
Std Dev: 7
XTreme 147 4.0 CFE-P OAL 1.16
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
881 129.507 253.321
866 127.302 244.768
873 128.331 248.741
864 127.008 243.639
876 128.772 250.454

Hodgdons data with 147 XTP
147 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon CFE Pistol .355" 1.100" 3.7 864 26,700 PSI 4.2 963 33,000 PSI
So they list a max of 4.2gr of CFE-P, start is 3.7gr.

A lot of people are loading fast powders with 147s in 9mm for matches (USPSA, IDPA) the smaller charge of a fast powder will give less recoil. (Titegroup, N310 etc)
Since you are loading for a carbine that is probably not as much of an issue, and I think you would be better served using a slower powder. (WSF, CFE-P, Silhouette etc)
Using a slower powder gives you more "wiggle room" pressure wise.
I have some data for some other powders as well with 147s if you are interested it them PM me.

PS: The RMR load shot well.
No pressure signs at 4.0 but I was testing for a 125 PF load for matches and didn't want any more velocity so I quit at 4.0gr.

PS #2: Notice the RMR load at a shorter OAL picked up about 30fps over the Xtreme load.
 
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I am impressed with CFE-Pistol. I just ran the 147 grain Missouri Bullets coated FP over 4.0 grains in new Starline brass with Rem SP primer out of my 3.1" Sig P365 and averaged 904 fps for 6 shots.

Also ran a 124 grain Hornady XTP over 5.2 grains CFE-Pistol using the same components for an average velocity of 1126 fps through the same 3.1" barrel

Not sure how the heavy bullet load would translate to a longer, carbine length barrel as I don't have anything like that to test with.
 
What's wrong with the CFE -Pistol you are now using? I'm thinking a charge of 4.0gr/4.1gr will keep the velocity down below 975 fps in the Carbine. The same load should shoot well in the pistol all be it at a reduced velocity probably around 900 fps. It would be easier if you have access to a chrono. I'm only guessing the numbers from published sources.

I will be testing with a chrono. My plan was indeed to download with the CFE and see where that gets me
I am impressed with CFE-Pistol. I just ran the 147 grain Missouri Bullets coated FP over 4.0 grains in new Starline brass with Rem SP primer out of my 3.1" Sig P365 and averaged 904 fps for 6 shots.

Also ran a 124 grain Hornady XTP over 5.2 grains CFE-Pistol using the same components for an average velocity of 1126 fps through the same 3.1" barrel

Not sure how the heavy bullet load would translate to a longer, carbine length barrel as I don't have anything like that to test with.

I load 5.2gn CFE pistol with 124gn FMJ and I'm extremely pleased with the accuracy. Sounds like CFE Pistol and slowly downloading over my chrono will be just the ticket for my load development. Glad to hear my preferred 9mm powder is a good selection for this new load.

I'm gonna be loading HST, XTP, and GDHP projectiles and as I work up loads with CFE I'll be sure to share.
 
I am impressed with CFE-Pistol. I just ran the 147 grain Missouri Bullets coated FP over 4.0 grains in new Starline brass with Rem SP primer out of my 3.1" Sig P365 and averaged 904 fps for 6 shots.

Also ran a 124 grain Hornady XTP over 5.2 grains CFE-Pistol using the same components for an average velocity of 1126 fps through the same 3.1" barrel

Not sure how the heavy bullet load would translate to a longer, carbine length barrel as I don't have anything like that to test with.
I run the Hornadys at about the same, 5.1-5.2 gr. of CFE-P. Per Hornady, max is 5.3 gr. IIRC. I don't remember if I chrony'd them or not. If I did, I should have 4" barrel results. I'll look when I get home.
 
I am impressed with CFE-Pistol. I just ran the 147 grain Missouri Bullets coated FP over 4.0 grains in new Starline brass with Rem SP primer out of my 3.1" Sig P365 and averaged 904 fps for 6 shots.

Also ran a 124 grain Hornady XTP over 5.2 grains CFE-Pistol using the same components for an average velocity of 1126 fps through the same 3.1" barrel

Not sure how the heavy bullet load would translate to a longer, carbine length barrel as I don't have anything like that to test with.
So I looked it up in my notebook. I did chrony some Precision Delta 124 gr. JHP, which are a splitting image of the XTP. The data is dated from Oct, 2015. So it looks like I only went up to 4.8 gr. The average was 1073 fps. Now I need to measure my present loads.
 
Does anyone have any 147gr 9mm loads chrono'd through a carbine ? I know most data I see when looking at 9mm pistol loads and the 147gr bullets are well below super sonic . How much more velocity is expected from a carbine ? Most of the data I see is between 900 and 950 fps for a 9mm pistol Is the carbine going to get another 200fps ? If not , Load up any combo you want and don't push it hard and you should be GTG .

It depends entirely on the powder used. Quick burning powders like TiteGroup do not see alot of velocity gains. I run 3.3gr of TG with 147gr HiTek coated. I get around 950 with my 5" M&P Pro, and get about 980 with my AR9 with a 10.5" barrel.

However with longer burning powders like CFE Pistol you will see a significant velocity increase. I run 5.6gr of CFE Pistol under a 115gr HiTek coated bullet. I see about 1250 in that same 5" M&P but see 1450 with that AR9.
 
'm curious to hear what powders and loads you've found success with loading 9mm 147gn rounds. Lead, Plated, Jacketed, or best of all Jacketed Hollowpoint data like XTP, Gold Dot, or HST.
Anything from Target to CFE Pistol depending on your application. Most of my data is for making minor which is less than your target velocities. For 950ish, I have loads for WSF, N340 and CFE Pistol. You gun(s) may prefer different powders.
 
I've got some titegroup so I'll give that a try compared to the CFE. I just ordered my chronograph so I'm currently just loading in anticipation of testing later this month. So far I'm definitely trying CFE and now it seems titegroup, might want to try 1-2 others for a start.
 
I've got some titegroup so I'll give that a try compared to the CFE. I just ordered my chronograph so I'm currently just loading in anticipation of testing later this month. So far I'm definitely trying CFE and now it seems titegroup, might want to try 1-2 others for a start.

My Titegroup loads are for making minor so they’re pushing 880 or so. It’s easier to make that velocity with a coated bullet than a jacketed one, especially with the heavier 147 grain projectile. I’ve not pushed Titegroup any faster as it’s an Uber-fast powder that can get out of control easily. Be advised to stay within the lines with faster powders, especially the COL. Your chrono will help keep you out of trouble, but realize it’s not a pressureometer!
 
3.1gr of titegroup under a 147gr coated bullet. Runs in the 900fps range in all my 9mm handguns.
I would just add a small caution with Titegroup... depending on how you are measuring your powder charges be careful with the very small volumes needed when using Titegroup powder. For me this is the 0.30cc and 0.32cc Lee Auto-Disks.

I was using a Lee Auto-Disk for my powder charges mounted on a Lee Classic Turret press. The 0.32cc disc cavity would usually throw about 3.9gr of Titegroup. This is my preferred load with Hornady 147gr XTP bullets. But occasionally the charge thrown would be VERY light... as in I could still see the brass at the bottom of the case sprinkled with a little powder. This means I could not trust using my turret press to quickly load 147gr 9mm rounds, one round per arm pull. I had to treat 9mm powder charging as a single stage loading 50 cases (a tray) at a time and inspect all my charges for equal level. I'd find about one light charge every 100 throws. The smallest Lee disk cavity is 0.30cc. This was even worse. So much so that I do not use it with Titegroup.

Admittedly, you can workaround this problem by changing your technique. Adding a deliberate action to shake or tap the hopper each cycle to get the powder to settle into the charge cavity could reduce the likelihood of light loads. But that technique would also increase charges when used with established loads that do not need tapping of the hopper. There is typically a decent amount of shaking of the hopper already as the turret rotates. This is enough for larger charges as used with 115gr and 124gr bullets. It is only the low volume 147gr charges that I had issues with.

There may be other powder dispensers that have no issue w/ small volume Titegroup powder charges, but for me the Lee disk system definitely has a problem with Titegroup at the very smallest volumes. Yo have been warned.
 
I would just add a small caution with Titegroup... depending on how you are measuring your powder charges be careful with the very small volumes needed when using Titegroup powder. For me this is the 0.30cc and 0.32cc Lee Auto-Disks.

I was using a Lee Auto-Disk for my powder charges mounted on a Lee Classic Turret press. The 0.32cc disc cavity would usually throw about 3.9gr of Titegroup. This is my preferred load with Hornady 147gr XTP bullets. But occasionally the charge thrown would be VERY light... as in I could still see the brass at the bottom of the case sprinkled with a little powder. This means I could not trust using my turret press to quickly load 147gr 9mm rounds, one round per arm pull. I had to treat 9mm powder charging as a single stage loading 50 cases (a tray) at a time and inspect all my charges for equal level. I'd find about one light charge every 100 throws. The smallest Lee disk cavity is 0.30cc. This was even worse. So much so that I do not use it with Titegroup.

Admittedly, you can workaround this problem by changing your technique. Adding a deliberate action to shake or tap the hopper each cycle to get the powder to settle into the charge cavity could reduce the likelihood of light loads. But that technique would also increase charges when used with established loads that do not need tapping of the hopper. There is typically a decent amount of shaking of the hopper already as the turret rotates. This is enough for larger charges as used with 115gr and 124gr bullets. It is only the low volume 147gr charges that I had issues with.

There may be other powder dispensers that have no issue w/ small volume Titegroup powder charges, but for me the Lee disk system definitely has a problem with Titegroup at the very smallest volumes. Yo have been warned.

I don't use the auto-disk with my LCT so haven't had any of those issues. My brother has made thousands (and thousands) of these on his Dillon without issue.
 
I load single stage. Even for handgun. I shoots thousands not tens of thousands and I don't mind it.

I have measured 3.5-4.5 grain charges of titegroup with my Redding 10-X thrower and my scale is accurate enough to be sure I'm throwing withing 0.05gn of target.

I'm scared of titegroup too, but I'll still use it when appropriate.
 
I never had issues with Titegroup but I never really cared for it, so I on;ly used about 2 lbs when I couldn't get other powders,
but I have heard that in 9mm small changes in OAL with Titegroup can make a big difference.
Lots of people like it for match loads (minor PF) but I prefer something slower.
Be careful out there.
 
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