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Super deep concealment

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by il_10, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. il_10

    il_10 Member

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    My normal deep concealed carry for the office, dressier occasions, etc. is a KelTec p32 in a leather holster I made that prints like a wallet. Sometimes if that's still going to print too much I'll drop a NAA mag into a jacket pocket or similar.

    The last time I went through 'security' at an establishment where it wasn't illegal to carry, it got me thinking about having an even deeper concealment option. Something where I could hold the whole package in my hand and not have it given a second glance. I don't want to cross into AOW territory so firing from concealment isn't a concern.

    I've seen the sneaky pete 'holsters' that are basically wallets folded up around your gun, but the idea of a NAA .22 short dropped into a pack of camels has been on my mind for weeks. I don't have one and there's not one in stock locally, can anyone confirm the size? Any other good James-Bond-Like ideas?
     
  2. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Depending on your locale, a pack of Camels (or other cigarette) might get a lot of scrutiny and suspicion.
     
  3. Telekinesis

    Telekinesis Member

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    I don't recommend carrying in places that are illegal, but I think it's worth it to know how to carry in places that don't want you to carry - that way you know how ineffective the security processes can be and if you ever really NEED to carry there (the perverbial mafia boss has a hit out on you - or you have a stalker) you know that you can if necessary.

    One thing you might consider is going with a more "social engineering" process. Instead of making the gun as small as possible, make the security screener think it is something else. Minimalist holsters that cover only the trigger guard and are teathered with paracord make it easy to hide the gun without any holster clips or loops showing. Put it behind a big metal belt buckle and before you get screened show the guard your belt buckle and let them know that it sets off metal detectors all the time. That way when the detector does go off, they're expecting it and already have an idea of "well, maybe it's the buckle..."

    An example:
    https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/deep-concealment-options-for-the-non-permissive-environment

    Note that this kind of stuff won't work on security people who know what they're doing, but it should have a decent chance of working for the average "event security" wand waver.

    Also consider knives. I know they're not quite on the same level of effectiveness as a firearm, but they are MUCH easier to hide, carry, and you can find options which won't set off metal detectors.
     
  4. il_10

    il_10 Member

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    That was a great read Telekinesis, and some good points and products to think about. I've never had an issue palming a folder against a cell phone or similar with my hands out in one of these security theater environments. The knife mentioned in the article looks pretty nifty. I hadn't though about a flat blade under a shoe insole, I may have to see what I've got laying around and do some experimenting.

    I'll note again I'm absolutely not talking about carrying in an environment where it's illegal to do so. I value my CHP and freedom too much, and truly prohibited places usually have adequate armed security (with a few exceptions that are a topic for another time).

    Practically speaking, you could put a desert eagle in a belly band up high in the middle of your back and walk right through most of these kinds of checkpoints, but it's more fun to get clever since this is all mostly hypothetical anyway.
    I've seen the lifecard in all the local gun stores, and they seem to be selling well, but it honestly seems kind of big for a single shot .22 designed to be discreet, less easily disguised than the old 'stinger' pens, and not any more useful.
     
  5. SHOOT1SAM

    SHOOT1SAM Member

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    The p-32 IS small enough to fit in a holster at the bottom of one’s...necktie.

    Sam
     
  6. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    I entered a courthouse once and placed all my pocket contents into the tray (this was before I had my Florida carry license, but after I had left law enforcement.) Once I had been screened, I was given back my personal effects, but I handed the OC spray back to the contract officer for temporary lockup while I was inside. He was surprised and told me he was "about to let that go in." It was a slim, thin container of OC spray disguised as a capped pen. Under the cap was a perfume-style plastic pump.

    I can't think of too many places my NAA would go that wouldn't set off a metal detector without some other plausible explanation to offer. But, creative options for hiding it one one's person abound if you take the metal detector out of the equation. Pockets or pouches can be fabricated within boots, inside pants, and inside hats.

    A faux arm cast or sling could also easily conceal a NAA mini or small .25ACP, like my Bauer. A gullible screener might even buy the "they implanted a couple of metal rods" to explain a metal alert. Once inside the venue, slip into a restroom, ditch the fake, and drop the gun into a more-accessible pocket or other place.

    A hollowed-out camera is another option if carrying one would seem normal in the given setting.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  7. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    A good tactical pen is not as good as a knife or gun. But I have gotten hardened, metal pens on planes and in court houses. "It is just a pen." If anyone asks, and it isn't even a lie.
     
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  8. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    You need to make look like normal concealment. A pistol in a cast or cake is going to be hard to explain if you get caught.

    Rule#1: How T F do I explain this in court?

    If you have a bag of weed in your bunghole, you're obviously not a medicinal user.
     
  9. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    Zerodefect writes:

    In this thread, we're not talking about unlawful carry (the OP makes that clear.) Such talk would get the thread closed, as THR does not tolerate discussion condoning unlawful acts.

    We're only talking about carrying against "rules-for-the-given-venue." Carrying a gun into a carnival, concert, or otherwise lawful location isn't going to land you in court, even if the location or venue itself has rules against going armed. You would simply be turned away (or escorted away if you had already gotten inside before getting caught.)

    If you haven't yet, read the article Telekinesis links in post three. There is a lot of good information in it, and the author makes an additional important point you might not see coming at the very end.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
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  10. mrmike7189

    mrmike7189 Member

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    Do they still make "Thunderwear "....underwear with a gun pocket sewn in?
    I haven't seen them for sale in years.
     
  11. Anchorite

    Anchorite Member

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    Some court house security. All the court houses I frequent - both state and federal - you gotta take it off if it beeps, no exceptions. If it’s questionable, it goes back to your car. It’s like TSA. And permits won’t get you in either. YMMV
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  12. kemikos

    kemikos Member

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  13. FAS1

    FAS1 Member

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    The SmartCarry works well for deep concealment. This is it with a Glock 17 used as a "Bump in the night rig". I use it with a Keltec P3AT when walking in the neighborhood in the evening. This one is made for a large gun so most of the little Keltec fits inside the pocket.

    f9eae45ded3d5a964501e2b72bfaee37.jpg
     
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  14. Anchorite

    Anchorite Member

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  15. Anchorite

    Anchorite Member

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    Ok then.
     
  16. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    Anchorite writes:


    The thread subject isn't restricted to carrying in courthouses (in post 14, you answer post 12 as if that was what he was asking about.)

    Also, my point in mentioning the OC "pen" at a courthouse was to offer the device as an optional self-defense weapon, not to discuss the effectiveness of courthouse security. The device could likely be easily-slipped into any of several other venues discussed in the thread.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
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  17. Anchorite

    Anchorite Member

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    Your points are well taken.
     
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  18. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    Before we had CCW I often carried either an NAA .22 mag or a KT P32. Realize that this was when carrying without being engaged in illegal activity would net you a ticket at worse or a commendation from an officer for being prepared. For example, a jogger in my neighborhood shot an attacker with his concealed pistol, and didn't even forfeit the gun, let along suffer any other legal consequences.

    Once we gained CCW my pistols got larger, but there are still times when one of those little guys is just the ticket. I was wanded while entering a venue while carrying the P32, and it didn't attract any attention, but my knife clipped on my pocket necessitated a trip back to the car. I was wanded once again upon my return, by a different "security" officer, and once again the P32 passed muster. (Recognize that this proves that most "security" is nothing more than a Kabuki theater for show and will not deter the determined.)
     
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  19. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    Skip the Thunderwear and go right to Smart Carry. The Thunderwear holsters are cheaply made, and not near the quality of the Smart Carry's.

    I was able to trip the trigger on my Glock 26 in one, within a few seconds of trying, by just putting pressure around the trigger through the material. Ive never been able to do that with the Smart Carry's Ive owned and used.

    I use a Smart Carry with a Glock 26 and a 17 reload pretty much daily all summer, in an active, NPE workplace. Works great. No one has ever been the wiser, and the gun is actually better protected, to me and the elements, than any other method.

    No need to have to give up a realistic gun because you have difficulty hiding it. Ive carried guns as big as a Glock 19 and SIG P239 in one, but with Carharts and Dickies, the 26 is a bit more comfortable for 10-12 hours of constant jumping around.

    These are the most versatile holsters Ive ever owned, and I wont be without one again. You can carry a real gun, in nothing more than a pair of shorts, even without a shirt.
     
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  20. JONWILL

    JONWILL Member

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    My rule of thumb is that if I will go to jail for carrying it stays in the car. If I will just be asked to leave I might keep it on me.
     
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  21. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    JONWILL writes:

    Yep. This is me, though, in the latter case, it's far than just "might" keep it on me. Other than at work, I don't remember the last time I disarmed simply because the given venue was "gun-unfriendly", though I also can't remember the last time I actually entered such a place. There just isn't that many around here. Maybe once every 18-24 months I take my daughter to a so-posted popular, pizza-and-mouse-themed children's game room.
     
  22. Thunderchicken

    Thunderchicken Member

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    I have one of the Thunderwear holsters and liked it enough I got one for my daughter. It doesn’t seem cheaply made to me. Maybe they used to be worse? Both these are around five years old and are not used for everyday carry. Being able to manipulate the trigger with it in the holster (especially a groin-mount like that) is certainly a deal-breaker. I tend to favor SA/DA guns or ones with grip safeties for carry because my imagination is quite powerful and undisciplined.
     
  23. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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  24. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    When it comes to passing through security points, it's the people and not the equipment who are really "defeated".

    Cheaper metal detector equipment may not have the sensitivity thresholds of better equipment, but in general it's safe to assume that the metal detection equipment is not, as a rule, going to be "defective" in and of itself.

    Some can even differentiate between certain metals, such as those used in pocket change.

    Most events, like concerts, ball games, and the like have issues like extremely high volume traffic that must be "screened". These are usually easier to slip some things through than other for two reasons:

    - High volume of traffic which lends itself to more superficial scanning.
    - Personnel performing the searches aren't really well trained and experienced in proper security measures.

    An example for me was a couple years ago at home when a new policy came out for the local baseball games: no knives. How was their security for this performed? A few people in front of the stadium entrance who used hand-held wands to rather quickly scan people as they went in. I kid you not, the wanding was easily a foot from the body, did not even begin to cover the whole body, and was so quickly done it was pathetic.

    Walk-thru metal detectors can be iffy, depending on how they're set up. Depending on the organization, all the metal stuff you remove from your body may simply be passed down a table in a plastic bin without going through a metal detector.

    BUT...know this: If you are carrying something metal on you (and it can be as small as a rivet in your jeans), it's NOT going to get through a serious metal detection security check point without being detected and security being satisfied as to what's actually causing the alert. These are people properly trained and whose jobs are taken quite seriously.

    For example, don't try to sneak something through the Trident Refit Facility in Kings Bay, GA. The marines providing security there are serious about the security surrounding strategic nuclear weapons. If they wand you, for example, they WILL be able to detect the metal in the rivets of your jeans.

    Soft facilities are full of holes. Disney World, for example, does a fairly thorough search of bags entering their parks, and makes use of metal detectors. The average person entering Disney World would think it's pretty good. However, anyone with any experience can look at what's being done and figure out how to slip through items with no problem. I've done it several times with my camera and have even figured out ways I could slip weapons through.

    My advice for areas where no laws would be broken by the attempt is to understand the system in place and be smart enough to realize when you need to leave your pocket knife in the car for the duration of the venue or just not attend at all.

    And remember...there are non-metallic options available. A simple walking staff/cane (even with metal on the ends) is one such option.
     
  25. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    I simply follow the rules, or stay home.
    Street fairs. Sporting events. Bars. Dance halls. Anywhere that is likely to have a high saturation of drunks or kids, I dont carry.
    We have close family members who have a honky-tonk band that plays the local watering holes. We travel around the area to hear them play music in those dives.
    Booze and guns dont mix well. Mine stay home or in the truck.
     
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