Surface to Surface shotgun: How do I practice?

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natedog

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Bakersfield, California
How can I improve my shooting skills with a surface to surface/HD shotgun? I've got a fair amount of time shooting clay birds, but I imagine that that'd be a whole different set of skills. Shooting a shotgun with buck at a paper target isn't very fun or very challenging, seeing as it is difficult to miss the target completly and the pattern of the pellets is entirely dependent on the ammo/gun. Anything I can do to spice it up? Will shooting birds help out my shooting in other areas?
 
If you have clay experience then you have more ingrained in correct basic fundamentals than you realize.

Do not know your HD gun set up, if a extended mag, side-saddle set up, do the repetitions with dummy shells to replicate the weight, feel of gun. Increases stamina, and ingrains muscle memory with that set up.

I suggest to new shooters starting with 10 correct mounting gun repetitions to face each day. Work up to 25. Then 50, 75 until 100 is reached. Just incorporate HD protocols in doing this.

As you know with a clay gun, mounting gun to face, be it premounted, or from low gun, these daily reps really do improve one even if they cannot get out to shoot. Benefits reveal themselves with dry fire drills...applicable to handgun and rifle too.
With HD,just incorporate those "ready to shoot" protocols.

Instead of just swinging through a "target" as you do with a clays gun doing all this, use a HD type target, suggest a smaller targer to increase focus.

Actual Shooting:

Observing safety rules and all of course, find a old wagon and make it so another person or two can pull Tueller drills, [wagon at you] the target moving laterally. Basically a wagon with a H target stand set up. Again if you use a smaller than regular target, the focus is more intense.

Use Teddy's (smaller again if can) and for the head shot use a 3x5" index card . Shoot these while "duck walking" , using cover, etc.

El Presidente and similar drills are great with shotguns too. Safety, watch that muzzle 180*, so have at least one buddy for SO.

Let someone load shotgun and incorporate dummy shells...while shooting, malf drills.
Kneeling, prone, Fetal left, Fetal right, , on back shooting forward, and on back shooting over head "back" toward target. All guns need to run in all postions anyway IMO.

Reminder: Port up, and shell has to eject in order to chamber the next one. Check gun (again I do this with handgun/ rifle as well) to know the gun, and user's skill.


HTH

Steve
 
Setup is an 18" 870 Police, bead sight, wood stock, Surefire forend, elastic shell holder in the buttstock.

CIMG0416.gif

Often, when sitting at home, I just practice dry firing/ reloads with snap caps.
 
natedog,
Nice set up!

You know all this stuff, you are doing fine! You know as well as anyone, the more you handle a firearm, dryfire, handle it in Administrative drills..etc..the better the firearm becomes and extension of them.

You were testing me weren't you? sneaky, sneaky, sneaky.
How'd I do? :p
 
Thanks for the tips. I'll see if I could maybe devise a system of ropes/pulleys to pull a moving target. Honestly, I don't practice shooting my shotgun with buck nearly enough just because shooting paper has been so dull (and kind of expensive).
 
Don't forget it is fine to practice with light birdshot loads in getting the basics ingrained again , to re-familariize, get warmed up so to speak.

Less perceived recoil , save a little money on using promo dove loads. Then use buckshot and slugs to apply and confirm what you did at beginning of practice session with light loads.

All you need are some wheels off a tossed out something, some scrap wood , and make a "wagon". Old junk kids wagon, lawnmower deck, anythhing, Check garage sales, flea markets, thrift stores.
 
Ah, range boredom perhaps? Not a problem. A dash of inventiveness and a pinch of creative thinking- with just a few $$- will go a long way to liven up those boring range sessions.

NUMBER ONE CONSIDERATION in adopting any of these methods, or any other "unconventional" training formats, is SAFETY. Everyone who participates in this sort of thing needs to have had enough trigger time to have the four rules throughly ingrained, or they need to stick to traditional range practice until they do. A novice shooter's target fixation on an improperly set up homebuilt target system can get the pange partner/operator shot. Don't shoot the target puller- or anyone else.

NUMBER TWO CONSIDERATION in using these methods is to have some repect for other shooters and for property owners. Not many public or private ranges will allow shooters this much freedom, not many are set up to allow this sort of shooting to be done safely, or to be done safely with buckshot or slugs. If you are not on an established range with proper berms and safety fans, look for a suitable place for this kind of training. We used to have rented access to an old gravel pit, which was perfect. But do not get so caught up in the ideas that you go places you shouldn't, or do things that will upset other shooters or property owners.

That said:

Number one, think of it as training, not practice. ANY trigger time you get with your shotgun is good as long as you are properly ingraining good habits- "perfect practice makes perfect" as they say. Hand thrown or machine thrown clay birds are not to be sneezed at for practice in hitting moving targets, they help 'program the computer' between your ears. Sporting clays is good because it gives you such a variety of target movement to deal with.

Even on a flat range you don't have to limit yourself to just stationary paper targets. Or at least to one stationary paper target at a time, that is. Put up three or four targets, relatively close together. With different colors of spray paint, graffiti 'em up a little- use one silhouette target as a pattern and paint its outline on plain paper, or just paint an X corner to corner or a line down the middle with a crosshatch. Have your range partner call a color, from low ready or an unmounted gun, shoot that color. Having to shift targets and work for speed will add a degree of pressure that will help liven things up, use a range timer if you have one- press the start button at the color call, let the timer tell you how fast you were getting the shot off. For a change of pace designate one color a 'no-shoot' and have your partner call that color in the rotation too- no shooting the no-shoots! Or paint different geometric shapes on the target paper, and call circle, square or triangle, or paint numbers or letters and call those. Some folks do this drill with steel gongs (left! right! center!), and granted the feedback is better in some ways shooting steel, but you don't need a couple hundred pounds of steel scrap to do it on your own. A newsprint end roll from your local newspaper, your own target frames and staple gun and a few cans of cheap spray paint will do.

And then there are balloons. And string. And breezy days. Stationary targets are boring? Get some that move! You want a challenge, blow 'em up small and use a long string to hang them from an overhead support string. Just a ball of kite string and a bag of party ballons will keep you busy for a while (clean up after yourself though). And you can use the color- call routine as above with them too.

There are easy-to-DIY ground movers like sm mentioned, the push lawn mower deck is one of the best of those- just set it up with a detachable target frame, and voila- instant mover. It can be run side to side, or as a charging target, or any variation thereof. For safety's sake use care in setting this up so you don't blast your partner. A couple of dog tie-out stakes and maybe some small pulleys, with a long enough loop of rope, and your partner never has to go downrange to move the target, it can be pulled back and forth from the same operator position using the rope loop.

Or you can set up an overhead track for a suspended charging target we've always called a garboon. Take a look at the thread at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=120768 to see how. Again, this is simple, pretty inexpensive and, since it's operated from behind the shooter, safe. There's a commercial variation of this out there now, but you can DIY- people have been, for a long time.

No doubt with some work you can come up with other variations too. Be generous and share 'em when you do.

lpl/nc (who hereby disclaims any and all reponsibility for and obligation to anyone careless enough to shoot themselves, their range partner, innocent bystanders, nearby houses or anything else at all save properly designated targets located on a properly established shooting range, while using any of the constructs, methods or ideas posted above, or any derivation therefrom, for any purpose, at any time or in any jurisdiction)
 
It doesn't matter how you gimmick it up, solitary practice with a hard kicking riot gun is not much fun and hard to evaluate. Suggest you look up the nearest USPSA club and see when they do 3-gun matches.
 
Second what Jim says. 3gun will make you a far better surface to surface (I like that) shotguner
 
In some places, they also run shotgun falling plates and bowling pin shoots. Those can be very challenging (you shoot the same plates they use for pistols, with birdshot), and you will increase your speed and accuracy.
 
One thing not included in these scenarios is stress. I can hit a lot of targets with a shotgun when I'm focused and relaxed. Low gun, high gun, pump gun, trap gun, light loads, heavy loads.

The reason I don't have all the patches I want to have is at least 90% mental.

It would be hard to argue that anyone who can hit every target in a good 5-stand course even half the time needs any marksmanship practice to hit a would-be rapist at 5-15 feet, provided that the gun fits. And despite the common rejoinder that buckshot in a Cylinder Bore doesn't spread immediately, it DOES spread a lot by 20 yards. At any real distance you'd be irresponsible to use a Cylinder Bore shotgun for defense.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot20.htm

Anyway, since I've never had to fight my way across my living room with a shotgun, this is not based on direct personal experience. But I know what it's like to hunt flushing birds with an 870 pump gun.

I'm walking along getting bored, paying attention to my surroundings so I don't shoot anyone, and all of a sudden I hear the loud rush of quail's wings. I shoulder the gun and try to see where they are and point at the same time.

Many things can happen at this point, other than what I'd like to happen:

1. I shoulder the gun wrong or the recoil pad gets stuck on my jacket, changing the POI enough to miss.

2. I am too damned excited to see quail after trudging around for an hour or more, and rather than taking a breath and pointing the way I know I should, I shoot too quickly and miss.

3. I forget to take the safety off, or I forget that I don't have a round chambered, or some other technical error. Grrr!!!

4. It takes a little while to even see the quail, because hearing them doesn't mean seeing them. This throws me off, and one of the above happens.

Now the worst thing that can happen as a result is that I'm a tad frustrated and my wife gives me crap when I come home without that flying delicacy I keep promising.:)

Quail aren't going to kill or rape anyone. Or at least anyone the size of a human. Maybe quail are mean little bastards; I don't know. I didn't study quail behavior in college.

This I know, though. I can break 6" discs flying through the air at 70 mph, 60 yards away from me. I did it last night, with a low-velocity load I'd cooked up and was testing. The reason I miss quail is not because I can't hit anything with a shotgun; it's the rest of the scenario that makes me miss them.

My reasonable guess is that stress is your enemy and your friend, in a defensive situation. It can make you more alert, or it can make you an instant bumbling idiot. Learning to channel stress, and to use your gun as well while under stress as you do at the range, seem to be some of the most important skills for home defense, if you're an experienced shooter.

My thoughts? Bet your wife's wedding and engagement rings on a lasertag or paintball tournament. Or maybe the house or the cars. Bungee jump immediately before, have a chat with some real moonbats, visit a jail to see people who are in for raping babies and torturing puppies. Get really pissed off. Commit yourself to jumping off a bridge if you lose the tournament.

Otherwise, I don't know how you could possibly duplicate the stress.:p
 
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