Surveillance

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MachIVshooter

MachIVshooter

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Aug 11, 2005
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Elbert County, CO
We talk alot about software vs. hardware in this section, but surveillance is both, and I don't feel that it gets enough attention. The purpose of this thread is to review the system I just upgraded to, but all thoughts on the subject in general are welcome.

Until today, I had a very simple B&W 2-camera CCTV system linked to a VCR. It was OK, but cheap and unrefined. Because I also run a business on my property and thus expose myself to certain liabilities, I felt it was prudent to have a better system in place. Of course, I'm not wealthy, so the true professional grade systems are out of reach. But I did find one that I am, thus far, very impressed with.

I selected the Swann DVR8-2550 system. It is an internet-ready 8-camera DVR system. The DVR unit is 500 GB, and the functions are fully programmable, save panning-if you want the ability to remotely pan your cameras, you'll have to spend more. It can record full time, or be set with timers or motion activation. The cameras are color, but B&W in night vision mode, with very good image quality in daylight and a pretty decent picture in the dark-especially indoors. The viewing angle is a little narrow, though, so the further you can get your camera from the target area, the better in most cases. It is a wired system, so most of the set-up is running cable........the actual software set-up is super easy once cameras are mounted and connected. You can view 1 channel, 4 channels or all 8 simultaneously, and you can decide which cameras record in what way. Perhaps the most attractive quality about the internet capability is not just being able to view remotely on another terminal or smart phone, but you can also have recording done remotely (like "cloud"), so even if someone broke in and snaked the DVR, they're still busted on video. According to Swann, the DVR can record 60 days continuously on all 8 cameras on the lower resolution setting. That's a lot of video!

Like I said, the main reason I got this was not so much security, but to prevent a customer ever being able to claim that I damaged one of their vehicles and/or catch the person who did, if it was actually damaged while at my shop. However, surveillance systems are one helluva deterrent to most criminals, and when they get close enough to realize they're starring in a new motion picture from multiple angles, they very often think the better of their actions. Even moreso today, since remote or cyber-space recordings mean there is no tape to grab.

So I'd love to hear yall's input on surveillance and the hardware. I just wanted to let others know that you don't have to spend a fortune these days to get a very respectable surveillance system that's pretty user-friendly and intuitive; I paid $438 delivered.
 
However, surveillance systems are one helluva deterrent to most criminals, and when they get close enough to realize they're starring in a new motion picture from multiple angles, they very often think the better of their actions.
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Is this something you've actually witnessed, or your estimate? Does it look like an ADT commercial like it does in my head where a hoodlum in black with a ski mask and a crowbar begins his dastardly deeds, but then falls all over himself running away when the jig is up?

I like the write-up, just wanted to clarify that point. Another one to add is that with the costs coming down and no service charges, someone could cover a smaller living space for a lot less money if they wanted.
 
You could probably get your insurance reduced by having one/a system, especially in a business.

Tony Montana had one so hey!
 
Do you have secure no-break power backup? Bad guys often defeat surveillance/alarm systems simply by cutting the power line to the site. Landline internet service can be defeated by cutting the cable, so a wireless connection is best.

Jim
 
Losing internet will have no effect on the dvr recording. Losing power however will. Cameras are not really a deterrent. They can identify the criminal though. I have had several customers call me and say the police caught a burglar/thief from the video of our systems. I don't know the kind you have. The cheapest that I use is $500 just for the dvr.
 
Is this something you've actually witnessed, or your estimate?
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Well, I've seen in person, and more so in video, someone acting hinky and looking around, and simply leaving when they spot the camera. Perhaps there were other factors, but A/V surveillance is a pretty proven deterrent. People have to go out of their way to avoid their faces being seen by the cameras, and this usually makes them stand out. No, it ain't foolproof, but it does help, just like locks and dogs.

Like I said, though, my primary reason is to cover my butt. $438 is a measly sum compared to what it could cost me if a tow truck or another customer damages a vehicle or two when unloading. Without the video, it's my word against theirs, and a very good chance I could end up paying for some or all of the repairs. When was the last time you heard of any significant auto body damage being fixed for less than $450?

Another one to add is that with the costs coming down and no service charges, someone could cover a smaller living space for a lot less money if they wanted.
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Yeah, there are two and four camera systems that are very affordable, like $200 ish. I thought about a 4 camera unit, but the extra $150 was worth it to me. As well, most of the four camera systems have a much smaller hard drive. I have 7 up and running, haven't decided where I want the 8th yet.

Do you have secure no-break power backup? Bad guys often defeat surveillance/alarm systems simply by cutting the power line to the site. Landline internet service can be defeated by cutting the cable, so a wireless connection is best.
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Not yet, but it's on the list. However, to get to the power line that would only knock out my property, they'd be seen by the cameras. Knock out the block, and you've drawn attention to yourself. As for the phone lines, they're buried. If they knew where to dig I suppose they could cut them, but again, they've already been seen (unless they run over the junction box).

I'm really not that worried about theft, as I live in a very rural community with low crime, and very few households are unoccupied during normal working hours. Lots of us work from home, and the neighborhood is tight enough to see what's going on next door with 5-10 acre lots comprising the majority. I'm on the property probably 155-160 hours out of the 168 in a week, and have an irregular schedule when I am out (might be 4 hours, might be 10 minutes), so not a good target even for a crook who was casing. Couple all of that with the fact that it's a humble ranch home with few valuables, the risk is pretty low. The only real concern I have is vandalism by the wife's increasingly hostile and unstable ex. Don't think he's dumb enough to try to physically harm us, but I wouldn't put it past him to go after cars with a baseball bat or something. If he does now, though, he'll be going to jail for sure.
 
knew that the price of electronics has been steadily dropping, but I didn't know it had dropped THAT MUCH
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Amazing, isn't it? Not so long ago, a system with these capabilities would have cost thousands.

I don't know what kind of longevity to expect out of this one, but if it lasts 5 years, I'll still consider it money well spent.

I also just discovered another cool feature with it. You can set the motion capture area so they're not constantly registering movement from animals, bugs, blowing tree limbs, etc. It gives you a grid overlay of the camera's view with 150 squares, and you just highlight the areas you want motion detection enabled. Skip the local tomcat on the porch, but pick up the guy standing at your front door.
 
MachIV, not trying to be a horses' butt, but don't expect 5 years. 2-3, maybe, is more realistic. But, $500 every three years is still cheap. Even with the high end stuff I've been putting in for 16 years stuff still goes bad. I've had $500 (each) cameras go bad after a couple months many many times. You would be better off going with the highest res possible at the expense of storage space with that system bc its already low end. Just make a copy of incidents quickly so that you do not lose anything you may need for evidence.
 
Yeah, the fellow I spoke with at Swann (excellent CS, BTW) said the cameras typically last 2-5 years, and he wasn't able to accurately state a lifespan on the DVR unit because most people just buy a whole new system when the cameras start failing (system cost $409+tax/shipping, individual camera cost $50/ea * 8 = $400)
 
Also remember that camera image quality is PARAMOUNT, some of these camera have WORSE images than your cell phone. Many are rated by the obsolete analog TVL-or tv lines instead of the usual industry standard 'pixel's' now up to double digit mega's as in 14 megapixel in the case of my wife's smart phone. Can anybody tell me how that relates to TVL's

secondly what is the image Field Of View, anybody buying a scope can understand this, you can have quality scopes that offer awesome quality and clarity of image at a lower magnification, where the cheaper scope you have to zoom in and the more you zoom in, the narrower your field of view gets, the good scope at 4x power might see 90+* were the cheapy at 9x power is down to 30*
This has a lot to do with the lenses the camera uses, so one expensive camera might provide the coverage of 2-3 cheaper cameras.
 
The analog cameras are not obsolete. They are the one that goes by lines. The ip cameras go by megapixels. Ip systems are too pricey for the average person wanting a few cameras at their house. When using analog cameras I prefer to use ones with at least 600 lines of resolution and a dvr with h.264 compression capability. Even with great cameras if the dvr is crap your picture quality will still be crap.
 
Also remember that camera image quality is PARAMOUNT
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Well, that depends on what you're trying to do with it. I don't need 8 MP resolution to see that one car bumped another, or that a tow truck driver ripped the lower cowl off a car when unloading. But if a DA's murder convicion hangs on the image of the man doing the deed, he's probably going to need a really high resolution video to show the jury.

Many are rated by the obsolete analog TVL-or tv lines instead of the usual industry standard 'pixel's' now up to double digit mega's as in 14 megapixel in the case of my wife's smart phone. Can anybody tell me how that relates to TVL's
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The cameras with this kit are 400 line resolution; You can start to see pixellation when the screen gets larger than ~7", but it's still plenty clear enough to positively ID someone 10' or 12' from the camera, maybe further. I can clearly read license plates at 40'+.

secondly what is the image Field Of View
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It's somewhat narrow with these ones at 37*. I plan to upgrade at least two of them to the PRO-610, which is a 480 line unit with 83* FOV, as I have two areas that the cameras included with the kit don't see enough of.

Bottom line, to get the MP rated cameras, wide FOV and PTZ capabilities you're talking about, you're going to spend a lot more money. For most of us, a system like this is probably more than sufficient.
 
A good ptz controller only is $500+
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The DVR (and their online and mobile apps) have PTZ controls. Not as intuitive as a joystick, but functional. That said, I don't actively monitor the thing, so unless I was using smart software that performed the PTZ functions automatically, it would be a waste.

I wouldn't mind having a PTZCF, though.............That's Pan, Tilt, Zoom, Cruise, FIRE!:evil:

(seriously, who on this board doesn't think toys like SWORDS are way cool?)
 
One of the more expensive parts of video surveillance is the wiring. Yes, one can go with wireless solutions, but they are not as bullet proof and require router reboots/reloads every now and then. Even with a hardwired solution, I would schedule a system reboot once a week.

As someone mentioned, cloud storage is a good idea but now you're talking a minimum of cable broadband due to the upload speed 'cause DSL & WiMax just won't cut it. One also has to think about a backup power solution for surveillance. It's no good when someone breaks in when there is a power outage.

Just a few thoughts.
 
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