Denny Gibson
Member
Folks, I just noticed that I mistyped my age. I am 75, not 85 … though I certainly hope to still be shooting when (if) I do get there.
Swedish Mauser Loading Question
- Thread starter Denny Gibson
- Start date
splattergun
Member
Yes, the 6.5 Swede is a sweet, sweet cartridge. As mentioned before, the military Swedish Mausers were made of carbon steel.
Both the M94 straight bolt version of WWI and the bent bolt M38 WWII versions must be kept at the lower pressure loads (M38 is generally considered to be somewhat better steel than the older model). The Swedish Mauser was a top-notch rifle and the 140 grain military spec loads have been used for decades for hunting big game, such as moose.
The modern commercial actions can be loaded to higher pressures, and this is where 6.5x55 Swede reaches its pinnacle. A 140 grain bullet is still a competitor.
I'm curious whether your new/old Swede is the straight or bent bolt..
Both the M94 straight bolt version of WWI and the bent bolt M38 WWII versions must be kept at the lower pressure loads (M38 is generally considered to be somewhat better steel than the older model). The Swedish Mauser was a top-notch rifle and the 140 grain military spec loads have been used for decades for hunting big game, such as moose.
The modern commercial actions can be loaded to higher pressures, and this is where 6.5x55 Swede reaches its pinnacle. A 140 grain bullet is still a competitor.
I'm curious whether your new/old Swede is the straight or bent bolt..
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Take this to the bank. I sent an inquiry to the old Gun Club President. He was competing at Camp Perry in the early 1960's, probably involved in Highpower before.
He said there was a time when match rifles had to use the 30-06 round same as the M1 Garand. Talking with Graybeards, at least for Service Rifle week, you were issued ammunition on the firing line. Then the 7.62 Nato was adopted for the M14, then match rifle shooters could shoot 30-06 or 308 Win. An early 1960's American Rifleman article, the Army brought a pressure barrel to the National Matches and tested competitors 308 & 30-06 loads. There were probably three times as many 30-06 loads tested compared to 308 Win loads. That tells me, match rifle shooters, and possibly civilian service rifle shooters, were allowed to shoot their reloads in NRA matches. I don't know if shooters had the option to shoot personnal reloads in all service rifle competitions, but I am aware, when shooting for Distinguished, shooters had to use the issue loads.
Then, when the 5.56 round was adopted as the service load, the NRA threw the towel in, and competitors could use whatever round they wanted. What I saw on the line, was that the military teams were using Federal Gold Medal match in 223 and 308 Win (Marines with M14's till 1997) out to 300 yards. Tne 600 yard loads were tailored and loaded by the Ammunition Technicians. Eventually, the Ammo Techs were put to some other uses, and I saw Federal Gold Medal Match and Black Hills match used out to 600 yards.
I am curious, do you know the type of military actions that failed?
Lefty38-55
Member
Yes, a m96 long rifle and the other the m38 short rifle with the bent bolt, both caused by the ammo used (one PPU or PMS and the other hot handloads). Believe me, I don't post this to SCARE people away from the Swedes; I LOVE them and my brother has a mint collection of 1 of each, plus all the uniforms and gear, including that really cool short 19" barreled 'tanker' carbine ... but I don't think the Swedes called it a tanker, LOL! My sole purpose is to CAUTION people that you shouldn't hot rod these like you can the later Mauser designs, or use ammo designed/pressured for 'modern' rifles; maybe also kinda/sorta like the precautions against small ring Mausers, etc.
The Swedish rifles lack the added 3rd safety locking lug at the rear of the bolt.
Thank you for the reply. Old rifles, built out of old materials, and without shooter protection features, are a risk. It is unfortunate that a sizable number of shooters have this nostalgia for an age they never lived in, and believe that things were just better in that imagined utopic time. Cherries were cherrier, blue was bluer, etc. And of course, old guns are better than new guns. Feature wise, sometimes yes. But metallurgy, nah.
It is very bad to push any mechanical device beyond its design loads. This is what Earl Naramore had to say:
Principals and Practice of Loading Ammunition Earl Naramore
Page 86
Kinds of failures
There are two kinds of failures. Failure occurs when a single application of force exceeds the ultimate strength of the steel. This is the kind of failure that results from head separation or failures and is mistakenly believed by many shooter to be the only kind of failure that occurs; i.e, as long as a load does not develop enough pressure to burst the gun, it is safe. It is probably this mistaken belief that leads to the overloading of ammunition.
The second kind of failure is classed as a fatigue failure. Most mechanical parts fail as the result of the repeated applications of forces that are well below their yield strengths. The repeated stressing, however small, results in the accumulation of stress that concentrates around some stress raiser. When the total stress is high enough, the part breaks. These failures always occur suddenly and without warning. There is no initial expansion or visible cracking to give the least indication of any weakness.
All the conditions for fatigue failure are present in firearms. The forces applied in them are suddenly applied and the unit stress and unit deformation are double those of static or slowly applied loads of equal value. The forces are repeatedly applied, although not in the sense of the frequency that stress is imparted to an automobile connecting rod. What is more, the forces are of a magnitude that it is high in proportion to the yield strength of the steels used. ……………
Page 88
We have seen that, in the .30-06, with a chamber pressure of 48.000 psia, the effective total force on the bolt face could not exceed 8,000 pounds by very much. This is reduced by the stretch of the cartridge case. More of this would be lost in compressing the bolt lugs and their shoulder so, under these conditions, the amount of tensile stress reaching the outside of the receiver might not exceed two or three tons.
When the pressure drops, all of the stress does not leave the steel and the amount retained as stored energy is not the same at all points. The maximum rated pressure takes into account the accumulation of these stresses, the presence of the stress raisers normally present in the design and manufacture and the elastic limits of the steels used. As long as reloaders heed this limitation on pressure, they can expect a long and trouble free service from their firearms. However, when these pressure are grossly and persistently exceeded, the stored energy builds up much more rapidly for it increases, not directly as the increase in force, but as the square of it. The fact that a rifle may stand a few loads developing excessively high pressures does not signify that it will stand them if they are used persistently. If the tensile strengths of the steels were known, the areas of stressed surfaces could be measured and with known pressures, the probable life of a rifle could be figured. As I said before, there is nothing magic about this.
HEAVY METAL 1
Member
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- Jan 18, 2005
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- 418
I have two Swedes and neither grouped satisfactorily well with 120 gr bullets. They both shine with 140gr pushed by 40+gr of IMR 4831. I tried a variety of powders and none did as well for me as IMR 4831. I have used this powder/bullet combination successfully for target work and deer hunting.
BJung
Member
Almost 2 decades ago I shot my Swedish target rile. For target us, the SMK 142gr bullets grouped very well. I used R22 which was close to the military powder, and I used Lapua brass. Another option I'd suggest is the Sierra 140gr SMK and SGK. If you hunt, the SGK will work for thin skin animals. I've read that accuracy loads from Sierra to Nosler transfers over, but I've never compared the two (yet) to confirm the claim. I would suggest you using 140gr bullets or heavier. Look for military rifle competition shooters. The Swede rifles are among the best rifles and the shooters must have good loads for it.
Denny Gibson
Member
It’s a straight bolt. Carl Gustafs 1905
Denny Gibson
Member
I shoot old rifles because it’s fun to own a nice example of a military artifact that shoots well. Believe me, I don’t yearn for bygone times (I’m old enough to remember some of those times … they weren’t that great!).
Denny Gibson
Member
That’s the direction I’m heading. I can’t find ant IMR4831 right now.
Denny Gibson
Member
I did find, and ordered, some IMR4350 so I’ll start with that.
I think I’ll see if I can find AA4350.
I think I’ll see if I can find AA4350.
Perfect. Try IMR 4350 with 140s and see how that does. No need to get AA4350 since you already bought IMR and if it works well which more than likely it will. My M96 like around 41gr of IMR or AA 4350 and I seat the bullet to magazine length which for me is 3.21. Good luck! Most accurate and easiest rifle to shoot that I own.
AJC1
Member
Vv160 and 165 is much cheaper...
Accurate Arms told me they blended AA4350 to the IMR4350 pressure curve. I can't tell a difference between the two that can't be explained by lot to lot variance.
AJC1
Member
The 4064 is slower than the imr 4064 I've used...
splattergun
Member
That's a nice one.
Not all Accurate Arms powders are duplicates. I was told AA2495 and AA4350 were pressure curve duplicates or IMR 4895 and IMR4350. They blended AA4064 a little different.
AJC1
Member
I'd be happy to have and test either of those others as I'm looking for deals. I found the aa4064 in an 8 for 309 when the imr was already heading north of 4. The vhit powders are still mid 3 so I've been looking to buy them next.
I reload a lot with AA4350 and AA4064. They have both performed extremely well in all my milsurps and my Rem 721 in 30-06. Before the recent price hikes, it was the best value powders as compared to IMR and Hodgdon at around $35.
jobu07
Contributing Member
This is my preferred 6.5 Swede load as well.
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