Switched to a revolver for ccw...

[Kleanbore]

I carry a pocket gun or revolver for the needs or concerns I feel I will most likely encounter. And they are close range, And do not think a small gun or revolver cannot be fast and accurate at those ranges.
I would assume most of us have been around the block in shooting firearms. I know my capabilities and feel very confident in what I carry. Each to his own.

It is reasonable to choose a defensive weapon on the basis of how might think the need to be most likely to arise...PROVIDED that one can use it effectively.

Effective use in self defense would require the vey fast shooing of several rounds, the number depending in part upon whether the assailant is alone or accompanied by another violent criminal actor.

Accuracy per se would not be high on the priority list.

One should never assume that an immediate, effective stop would likely be effected with only a couple of hits.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

CCW is not Law Enforcement, Military or Hunting and so the needs and expectations are quite different. We are not intentionally assaulting enemy positions, serving warrants, attempting to arrest people or stop vehicles. We are not intentionally going into bear or mountain lion or peccary areas.

The tools and requirements are somewhat different for each task. As a civilian I have never felt under armed when carrying a revolver. I understand there could well be situations where I would be under armed but consider the risk low even though that threat would be very high. If I'm in a bank when a gang of robbers wearing body armor and with fully automatic weapons rush in, no handgun I own would be of much use. And my S&W 5906 with a couple 17 round mags would be no greater value than my S&W DA Model 4 with just 4 rounds of 38 S&W.

Probably one of the best quotes I have seen in the many years I have been in this hobby. And such practical thinking. And which requires "Practical" training.
Pocket guns and Snubbies. In fact after so many years of shooting them, I have come go believe that are actually more of a ideal weapon than many of the larger, firearms with larger capcities. Train with them often and you find out they are one of the fastest to draw, shoot and carry.

 

[Anchorite]

Probably one of the best quotes I have seen in the many years I have been in this hobby. And such practical thinking. And which requires "Practical" training.

Agreed.

 

[WheelGunMan]

I agree with the .357 being a bit punishing . My 6" Security Six is the only revolver I'm willing to shoot .357 out of. The SP101 and the LCR only see a diet of .38 Special.

 

[jmorris]

I carry a pocket gun or revolver for the needs or concerns I feel I will most likely encounter. And they are close range, And do not think a small gun or revolver cannot be fast and accurate at those ranges.
I would assume most of us have been around the block in shooting firearms. I know my capabilities and feel very confident in what I carry. Each to his own.

Me too, so lots of times it’s a revolver (SA/DA) or semiauto with a shot round as the first shot then regular loads after that, because the shot works on the little critters I encounter. Often a cheap plastic 380, not because it’s better than my 2” Diamond back or an air weight but because it’s cheap and does the job, so I understand.

How fast a particular firearm can be used is more up to the person shooting it than the device, that is for sure.

I am a MA revolver shooter with a number of division champion finishes and even placed 1st at nationals one year. Confidence and believing is key, a shot timer and practice can be much more informative in terms of abilities.

That brings us back to the OP and what I was commenting on.

Lots of articles talk about how much harder snubs are to shoot accurately than semi autos....

That’s a pretty open statement but we can look at results from a world record holding revolver shooter.

These are world records.



And compair them to how he can also use a semiauto doing something that’s not a world record.



He did say the semiauto “felt like a job” though...

 

[jonb32248]

I never had the opportunity to shoot a LCR or anything else revolver except my new Taurus 605, 357. I could shoot that all day but can't afford the ammo. What I do shoot is absolutely no pain or discomfort in 38 a little recoil feltin the palm in 357. Could be the rubber grips but I love the gun. Half the price of most other brands.

 

[SteadyD]

We must be cut from the same cloth because you took the words right out of my mouth and this has always been my experience with the LCR. I felt like I was hitting my palm with a ball peen hammer each time I fired my LCR. Very unpleasant and I could never overcome that.

Let me get out my broken record... Have you ever considered a 327 LCR? They are incredibly comfortable to shoot with 32 H&R Magnum. I really like that round. It seems to offer good penetration and shoots fast given the very low recoil. Plus you get an extra round!

 

[Sistema1927]

Let me recommend Grant Cunningham's book "Defensive Revolver Fundamentals": http://www.grantcunningham.com/information-store/defensive-revolver-fundamentals-book/

 

[Hangingrock]

Decades in the past, concealed carried a S&W M15. Currently a S&W Shield 9X19mm primary and a S&W M640-38Spl as a backup. My choices are not the choices of others.

 

[FlSwampRat]

When is he last time the US military thought the revolver was the best platform?

As Jeb Stuart mentioned above, most of the guns suited to concealed carry have no purpose in the military.
I ask many of my customers who inquire what the best gun is what was their main purpose in buying the gun. With new gun buyers I use a vehicle analogy as most everyone has experience with vehicles. "What's the best vehicle out of this list: a Corvette, a Chevy Suburban or a Chevy pickup truck?" Well, are we going for a Sunday ride in the country, taking the family on a picnic or going to Home Depot to get a bunch of new fencing? Different purposes have different parameters which demand different solutions.
My EDC in the store (my Anaconda) is different than my EDC concealed (Bersa Thunder 380) because the situations differ. I don't think many military needs coincide with civilian needs.
If they did, I'd get rid of my pickup truck and drive something different. (Although, there are times, in traffic, with total idiots on I-95 rush hour I'm tempted to get one of these):
http://www.realclearlife.com/auctions/buy-a-drivable-m4-sherman-tank-at-d-day-auction/#1

 

[jmorris]

As Jeb Stuart mentioned above, most of the guns suited to concealed carry have no purpose in the military.

I think you quoted him from his post #44 vs me.

I do agree that “everyday carry” means different things to different people.

Despite that there is room to argue the across the board statement “lots of articles talk about snubs harder to shoot accurately than semi autos”.

We can start with the most basic premise. Is a “snub” harder to shoot accurately than a longer barreled revolver of equal quality. Longer sight radius alone would predict yes. Assuming we are not talking about the use of optics.

Then we can move to the fact that the original statement has no bearing on sight radius for the semiauto so that is one issue for starters.

Lots of folks can shoot a revolver well single action because most have trigger pulls that rival pistols but don’t do near as well with the double action pull.

Also a reason striker fired pistols are somewhat more popular than DA/SA pistols, when one wants every trigger pull the same. As keeping things the same from shot to shot helps with consistency/accuracy.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I think you quoted him from his post #44 vs me.

I do agree that “everyday carry” means different things to different people.

Despite that there is room to argue the across the board statement “lots of articles talk about snubs harder to shoot accurately than semi autos”.

We can start with the most basic premise. Is a “snub” harder to shoot accurately than a longer barreled revolver of equal quality. Longer sight radius alone would predict yes. Assuming we are not talking about the use of optics.

Then we can move to the fact that the original statement has no bearing on sight radius for the semiauto so that is one issue for starters.

Lots of folks can shoot a revolver well single action because most have trigger pulls that rival pistols but don’t do near as well with the double action pull.

Also a reason striker fired pistols are somewhat more popular than DA/SA pistols, when one wants every trigger pull the same. As keeping things the same from shot to shot helps with consistency/accuracy.

I think every thing you said is true, if you are talking strictly at the "mass" of general firearm purchasers. And IMO that group as a whole do not shoot very often and hence the need for a light striker fired Pistol. Are snub nose pistols Harder to shoot well? That would depend on distance. And the skill of the individual shooter. Take a shooter that does shoot often, his point and shoot skills are exceptional, so no,it is not harder to shoot a Snub nose revolver fast and accurately to center mass and I would say even faster to draw the weapon than a larger, heavier pistol or revolver. The learning curve is longer, but not difficult to do well.
Your statement "
"Lots of folks can shoot a revolver well single action because most have trigger pulls that rival pistols but don’t do near as well with the double action pull", is true, but again if you are talking about the mass of shooters that do not train very often.
Watch a lot of "Mass" shooters, people that typically buy a firearm and most will go to the range and simple target shoot their guns. You have seen it a million time. Take the time to get into the right stance, take time to acquire the target, take the time to breath and concentrate and slowly pull the trigger. These, Mass of shooters are not going to do well with a Double action only gun. They need a target style trigger. One reason I truly believe the Popular Ruger LCP morphed from a sweet double action trigger in the Gen 2 model to the "light crisp" trigger of the LCPll.

I have trained so often with DAO triggers and for so long, that I disdain a light crisp trigger. Unless of course I am target shooting for distance, which I very seldom do. I also shoot small pocket guns and snubbies so often that I love shooting them fast, but dislike or bored with shooting them like a target gun.

So IMO, If a person, purchases a Snub nose revolver, trains often, gets past the learning curve, he will have a outstanding, reliable gun, one that is very fast to draw, and very fast to center mass.

It is all a matter of becoming "Hard wired into the gun you shoot, becoming one with the gun". Personally, do not need, want or desire another light striker fired gun. I will take a smooth DAO gun every time now. I like the total control of the DAO, which is deliberate and clean all the way through. And feel safer at EDC.

 

[jmorris]

I think every thing you said is true, if you are talking strictly at the "mass" of general firearm purchasers.

I’m not sure where the “lots of articles” the OP was talking about were published but if they were in common gun magazines, they were for “general” folk, I would imagine.

That said it’s a lot easier to get faster splits on target with a SA semi than a DA revolver, no matter who you are.

Like the videos in post #55 with a world record holding revolver shooter.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I will remember that when I go on to becoming a world record holder in fast split times. For now I will just focus on fast draw and hitting center mass to the thug that I might encounter in every day life.

 

[WheelGunMan]

I have to concur with Jeb Stuart. I carry and practice 99% of the time with my DAO revolvers that I find when I pick up one of my SA/DA's I find myself shooting in DA. I guess the hand muscle group has memorized how to easily stage any revolver for accuracy. I too find that I have to mentally think about cocking the hammer to fire SA.

They say you'll revert back to what you trained for when the need for it arises in a skirmish.

 

[KevininPa]

Every time I read this I feel the need to pull my LCR back out and try to make it work, but for whatever reason I just cant like it. Its unpleasant to shoot and I can never get it to shoot how I need it to.

It's not the trigger, I have other DA revolvers and semis that I can shoot just fine, it's not the sights as they are better than those on my Vaqueros, which are tack drivers, it's some nebulous combination of the two I guess.



But i do like to shoot a few cylendars through the LCR to numb my hands up when I'm shooting some particularly punchy .44 mag or 10mm loads, makes them feel pleasant in comparison.

Sell the .38 LCR and use the money to fund a 9 mm or a .357 and download to .38s. That little bit of extra mass is a game changer. I also have the Pachmayr Guardian grip on mine. Having that pinky on there makes a difference also. That grip brought me back to pocket snubs.

 

[Kleanbore]

So IMO, If a person, purchases a Snub nose revolver, trains often, gets past the learning curve, he will have a outstanding, reliable gun, one that is very fast to draw, and very fast to center mass.

That, I think, is indisputable.

My problem with the small revolver is capacity.

One hit always effects a quick stop in screen fiction. The targets on which we train are stationary. And for some reason, many of us usually envision an encounter with one violent criminal actor.

If we do not want to go to the effort of engaging in realistic FoF training, we should talk to people who have. And then, after our idea that we will always hit where we want to hit has been has been tempered, we should learn something about handgun wounding effectiveness.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

That, I think, is indisputable.

My problem with the small revolver is capacity.

One hit always effects a quick stop in screen fiction. The targets on which we train are stationary. And for some reason, many of us usually envision an encounter with one violent criminal actor.

If we do not want to go to the effort of engaging in realistic FoF training, we should talk to people who have. And then, after our idea that we will always hit where we want to hit has been has been tempered, we should learn something about handgun wounding effectiveness.

Personally I believe in real life, you will be lucky to get off the first shot. The bad guy always has the edge. In my area, most shooting are 1-3 shots, to include the last two police officers shot and killed.

 

[Kleanbore]

Personally I believe in real life, you will be lucky to get off the first shot.

There is a risk that you will not fire even one necessary shot timely, but it is a riskk that can be mitigated, and doing so will involve more than luck.

The bad guy always has the edge.

He knows what he intends to do, and that give him an advantage.

In my area, most shooting are 1-3 shots, to include the last two police officers shot and killed.

That's not really relevant to the question.

 

[jmorris]

I will remember that when I go on to becoming a world record holder in fast split times. For now I will just focus on fast draw and hitting center mass to the thug that I might encounter in every day life.

You got me there, I have never fired a shot on a thug anywhere, despite knowing my abilities with different firearms, ammunition and ranges, at targets of different sizes moving at different speeds/directions.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

And I have never shot on a thug anywhere. Despite knowing my abilities with different firearms, ammunition and ranges, at targets of different sizes moving at different speeds/directions. (Thankfully)

 

[FlSwampRat]

I think you quoted him from his post #44 vs me. I do agree that “everyday carry” means different things to different people.

The OP focused on CCW, which is a part of "everyday carry" but all of it, EDC covers a lot more ground. For CCW I carry a .380, however the bulk of my carrying every day is a 6" Colt Anaconda as I open carry at my place of business. A large frame revolver is just what I want for the scarecrow effect in the mind of any orcs out there that might consider doing something foolish, but it's simply not easily suitable for concealed carry unless I wear a trenchcoat. Not a good sartorial choice in South Florida.

Despite that there is room to argue the across the board statement “lots of articles talk about snubs harder to shoot accurately than semi autos”.

The key word in that line is "accurately". I'd argue that statement in the context of "accurately enough". In Fla you can only use deadly force if your own or someone else's life is in imminent danger. That means you're in close proximity to the orc. I train for self defense at twenty feet. My living room is only twenty five feet long. Much beyond that, someone's not threatening me very effectively. My cc piece was discounted because the inner blade of the rear sight was missing so it's one big notch. I could buy the blade and pop it in easily enough, but why? It's a self defense piece and when I first took it to the range I ran two mags through it, first one a bit of aimed fire and the second a more rapid fire. All 14 rounds were in a 4" group at 20'. I'm sure at distance I'd rather have the Anaconda or my Python, both 6" bbl guns. In the context of a cc self defense piece, the sights and sight radius don't factor in, IMHO.

We can start with the most basic premise. Is a “snub” harder to shoot accurately than a longer barreled revolver of equal quality. Longer sight radius alone would predict yes. Assuming we are not talking about the use of optics.

Again, a snubbie is not going to be used for target shooting at distance. At close range where you can use deadly force for defense, It's accurate enough.

Then we can move to the fact that the original statement has no bearing on sight radius for the semiauto so that is one issue for starters.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that statement.

Lots of folks can shoot a revolver well single action because most have trigger pulls that rival pistols but don’t do near as well with the double action pull.

Trust me, I'm a trigger pull fanatic. I shoot all of my revolvers single action, I train to draw and cock, only finally putting my finger into the trigger guard when I'm on target. during recoil I remove my finger, cock the hammer, reinsert my finger and when I'm back on target I am ready to fire again. I am not a fan of striker fired gun trigger pulls as the always feel mushy to me as I take up the rest of the cocking travel of the firing pin before I go ka-pow. Striker fired pistols don't have the same crispness that a true single action hammer equipped handgun has in single action mode.

Also a reason striker fired pistols are somewhat more popular than DA/SA pistols, when one wants every trigger pull the same. As keeping things the same from shot to shot helps with consistency/accuracy.

Any DA/SA pistol carried in condition 1 has the same trigger pull every time.

 

[jmorris]

Trust me, I'm a trigger pull fanatic. I shoot all of my revolvers single action...

The op didn’t say anything about speed, so that may work for him. The folks that wrote the articles he was referring to certainly didn’t take SA only fire into account.

 

[FlSwampRat]

My cc piece was discounted because the inner blade of the rear sight was missing so it's one big notch. I could buy the blade and pop it in easily enough, but why? It's a self defense piece and when I first took it to the range I ran two mags through it, first one a bit of aimed fire and the second a more rapid fire. All 14 rounds were in a 4" group at 20'. I'm sure at distance I'd rather have the Anaconda or my Python, both 6" bbl guns. In the context of a cc self defense piece, the sights and sight radius don't factor in, IMHO.

The rear sight on my .380.



You can see by this group the patterned opened up a lot over my 4" group at 20'. This was at 30' with that sight you see above.



This was my wife's first day with her FN57 at 30'. She insisted if I put up my 30' target I had to put her's up, too.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Carry what works for you.

I got nothing against revolvers. Obviously the guys that are adamant about carrying them realize the disadvantage their at with lack of rounds and just dont care.

To each their own.