SxS shotgun 12ga.... maybe FN?

[Charger442]

can someone help me identify this gun? 12 gauge, sling swivels under the barrels, NOT exposed hammer gun.

here are some pictures of the underside of the barrel. sorry its tough to see the fine detail of the markings but i think its got the ELG in an oval there. also looks like the lion over P.V. means its been nitro proofed and should be fine for modern loads?

 

[Ron James]

I see nothing that would lead me to believe it is a FN. Only that it is Belgium made.

 

[Jim Watson]

Unfortunately, your most important picture, the first one, looks like the camera autofocused on the barrel lugs, not the flats. What are the figures in the open oval kind of like an elongated Omega?

The inspector's mark, (star) G, is for Charlier Josef, who worked at the proof house from 1928 til 1959. This agrees with the other proof marks.

 

[Edarnold]

If you are intending to shoot this piece, you should check the chamber length. If it was made at the earlier end of the inspector's service, it may have 65mm chambers, which are definitely not OK for current 2 3/4" ammunition. Confirm this before shooting! This information is usually marked somewhere on the barrels, what you want to see is 12 gauge, 70mm length, if it isn't marked check with a gunsmith.

 

[Charger442]

If you are intending to shoot this piece, you should check the chamber length. If it was made at the earlier end of the inspector's service, it may have 65mm chambers, which are definitely not OK for current 2 3/4" ammunition. Confirm this before shooting! This information is usually marked somewhere on the barrels, what you want to see is 12 gauge, 70mm length, if it isn't marked check with a gunsmith.

I am with you on the chamber length issue, I had the chamber lengthened on my 1926 Winchester 97.

But other than the chamber length, the barrelast metal should be fine for modern pressured loads?

 

[Jim Watson]

It is marked, it just not clear enough for me to read.
What does it SAY?

 

[SDC]

"Fabrique en Belgique" is French for "Made in Belgium", but there should be some form of maker's mark or address somewhere else on the gun (usually on the sides of bottom of the receiver, or on the top of the barrels, on the rib). Take a REAL close look, and let us know if there's anything there.

 

[Jim K]

There were big gun factories in Belgium (most in or near Liege) but there were also dozens of small gun and part makers, most of whom belonged to a consortium. These "co-ops" were comprised of makers of barrels, makers of actions, stockmakers, and the like. They shipped parts around among themselves, with each small shop contributing its expertise to turn out complete guns. Since it would not have been practical to show on the completed gun all the shops contributing to it, none were shown, and the gun has no maker's name or marking. Today, I understand most of the small shops are out of the gun business, due to the economy and gun control laws.

Jim

 

[Ron James]

If IRC. in the early 1900's there were only three manufacturers in Belgium that were capable of taking in wood and steel at one end of the building and having a completed gun exit the other end. The rest dependent on barrels, receivers, stocks and other parts from out side suppliers to complete their arms.

 

[eastbank]

it looks like a very nice field hunting shotgun, if it is 2-3/4 chambered and checked out by a gunsmith i would use it to hunt small game. i own 28-29 shotguns and a few friends and i like to do what we call old time rabbit hunts after christmas, useing older shotguns, 97 and model 12 winchesters and older remingtons with older single and double barrels throwed in. its a good time for all. this is my latest double barrel picked up, a friend was handleing a estate for a long time friend who passed and ask if i would be interested in a charles daly 12ga made in japan and after seeing it and taking it apart and finding out that is was made by miroku with 30" fc-mc barrels and 2-3/4 chambers i ask how much the widow wanted and he said 200.00 and i bought it and i shot a 22-25 at trap after putting a slip on pad on it as the was shortened and a recoil pad installed,its still short for me and will get a larger pad put on in the future. eastbank.

 

[Jim K]

Hi, Ron,

As I understand the process, there were barrel makers, action makers, stockers, furniture makers, etc. Then there was sort of a central shop where fitters put things together. The completed guns would then be sold by the consortium to individual "gun makers" who could, if they wanted, have their names put on the guns prior to sale. The Germans did much the same thing.

In both countries, the big steel companies, Krupp in Germany and Cockerill in Belgium, provided barrel blanks to consortia or gun makers, and the barrel makers put the name of the steel provider on the guns. (I am sure there was some kind of deal, but I don't know what it was.) The result is that some owners of rifles and shotguns think their guns were made by Krupp or Cockerill.

The English were much more individualistic, generally making the whole gun, as did the Italians. The Spanish system had a central company, which did heavy casting and forging, then farmed the parts out to cottage industry for hand finishing to gauges. The factory then traded the finished part for more rough parts.

Jim

 

[waidmann]

That open "C" near the rear of the flat, if it is stamped 12-70 it is 2 3/4 inch chambers. If stamped 12-65 then it is a 2 9/16 inch chamber (at least at time of proof).

RST of Pennsylvania offers the short shells. Lengthening the chambers in this piece should be considered in light of barrel thickness, cost of work vs. value of the piece. I don't see it as economical.