Taking Ye Olde Plunge on Ye Olde Saiga

[kcmarine]

Well, now that I have a summer job and a surplus of free time (sitting in the parents' house bored is never good for the psyche), I've decided to take the plunge on converting the Saiga.

I've got the parts ordered... the internal parts and the grip screw. Now what I need to do is find cheap yet acceptable furniture for the rifle.

I will be keeping the fore end for the rifle... getting the parts for a "normal AK" style fore end is just beyond the means right now. What I need is a pistol grip and the buttstock.

I know you can get a NATO- length one, or a Warsaw Pact Rooskie length one. I like the length of the sporter stock on the Saiga, and the Romanian rifles that I've handled (I assume they have a shorter buttstock) have always felt too... "cinched". I'm guessing the NATO-spec buttstock would be better?

Also, are there any special drill bits required for this? This will be a summer project... I haven't ordered the bullet guide yet or magazines. I know you need a tap and die (and some dubya dee fourty) for the bullet guide, but are there any other special tools needed? Any screws I need?

Thanks in advance!

 

[kcmarine]

Anyone? Anyone?

 

[Phydeaux642]

http://dinzagarms.com/

 

[kcmarine]

Any more specific info?

 

[philpost]

I just saw a moderately informative conversion series on Youtube. Seems like more work than I'd want to do, but lots of folks on here who've done it say it's no big deal. And yes, the NATO stock is longer. Check out K-Var.

 

[M1key]

Find info here:http://forum.saiga-12.com/

 

[Maverick223]

I have converted two...my own Saiga-12 and about 5 days ago a friend's 7.62x39mm carbine. Both were easy, but required a little finagling and a bit of fitting for many of the parts, particularly the fire control group parts. Prepare to do a bit of grinding, filing, cutting, drilling, and perhaps a bit of welding (this can be avoided if you spec the right parts). The above advice is good, see Saiga-12 Forum and make sure that you have the 922r requirements met (here is a handy checklist to check compliance). About the only thing that I can add is that NAPA Low-Gloss Ceramic Engine Paint is the best that I have used, and is nearly on par with Duracoat and other bake on finishes...but at much less cost.

 

[kcmarine]

What would you say is the best way to get the shroud off of the front part of the barrel? I've been steadily grinding it down but there's got to be a better way...

 

[Maverick223]

What would you say is the best way to get the shroud off of the front part of the barrel?

No idea, didn't mess with that, my buddy didn't express interest in adding a muzzle device and I certainly didn't encourage him to. I did fabricate a shroud (with its 139 holes :banghead for my Saiga-12 though...admittedly a stupid addition, but I think it breaks up the lines of the seemingly long bbl well.

 

[kcmarine]

The thing is ridiculously well built. I spent at least three hours tonight trying to get that damned shroud off. Went through two or three Dremel grinder wheels. Then the speed control on the Dremel gave out. I have lungs, eyes, and skin filled with metal shards. The shroud?

STILL THERE.

Those Russians know how to make a rifle.

 

[M1key]

Knock out the pins, heat sight base with acetylene torch, knock off with hammer.

...do no harm to self.

 

[mshootnit]

I will send you a grip if you get me your address. I have one laying around somewhere I think. I like KVAR furniture but really like ACE.

 

[Deus Machina]

If you can knock the pins out and get the front sight post off, that's the way to go.

My friend's Saiga even came with an actual military-style barrel, complete with retainer ring notch and threads already on it, just covered up by the civilian hardware.

My sight post absolutely refused to move, even with heat, cold, penetrating oil, a pulley yanker, and every combination of such. I had to grind a slot along the bottom to give it enough stretch, then weld the slot back shut after.

A trick to getting it off, if you can't remove the entire base, is to cut a ring around it with the edge of the wheel, not trying to thin the entire thing out. Then cut a slot to loosen it. Be very{/I] careful with your depth. Go slow. Russian steel may rust relatively quick, but it's tough stuff.

EDIT: The shroud is also extra long. '74-style rifles use that length, but the threads are larger and placed where that shroud is. '47-style guns have threaded barrels, not on the sight block, and are only threaded about 5/8" down--about half the length of that shroud. I rough-cut the shroud off, milled flat, filed smooth until you couldn't tell, and am installing a detent pin. The whole sight block will end up moved forward a pin slot. That leaves it at proper '47 spacing.

As for furniture, mine is wearing Tapco. I very much doubt the grip works, but K-VAR or ACE stocks will be nicer than Tapco. I just bought an adjustable one to find my size, and haven't found any need to replace it.

The stock... err, stock, stayed on for a while. It's fine as a sporter, but once you put a pistol grip on, that length sucks. It's actually an inch and a half or so longer than the farthest setting on the adjustable one.

 

[TOU]

Maverick,

That has got to be one of the nicest looking Saiga's I have ever seen...nice job! (I love the Ace's too & have one on a Daewoo DR-200.) Some time ago, I bought four Saiga carbine length in the major calibers including 12 Ga. The intent was to convert them. Well...except the 12 Ga they never really got out of the box and I recently sold three of them (Except the .308) in favor of the good to go D-Technik VZ-58's & my Daewoo's. (Decided to SBR one of my two Daewoo's.)

So how well do those sights work? Are they permanently attached? Do you know if they they make rail mounted versions?

Cheers,

TOU

 

[Maverick223]

Thank you TOU.

The sights work great for a shotgun. I wouldn't put them on a rifle because the rear aperture is mounted to the dust cover, but that is a non-issue for this scattergun. Sight acquisition is near instant and it allows me to adjust for elevation when using slugs, I really think it matches the gun well. The front and rear are both welded on, I haven't seen any HK "drum sights" that attach to a P-rail. There is the uber-expensive Sig-556 drum sight, but it costs a small fortune and is virtually identical to the HK sight. Then again, I don't think it would be that hard to take a steel scope ring and an original HK sight, chop em' up, and weld them together to make your own BUIS system.

 

[kcmarine]

Ok, I've been grinding it down, and I've gotten just a little into the barrel... nothing deep... You can still thread that, right/

 

[FMJMIKE]

Sir....I think maybe you should do a little more reading first then grind later. I have converted over 8 Saigas and it is better to read first. Saiga-12 Forum is the best place for info. I have never removed the front sight. I was always happy with the factory one. Good Luck.................

 

[kcmarine]

Problem is, nothing with that damned shroud is really a great way to remove it. I cut around the shroud, but it is a very tough piece of steel and there's no real way to tell that you've cut too far and gone into the barrel. Plus, the Dremel burned out, so I won't be doing any more for a while... .

 

[W.E.G.]

Dremel burned out...

 

[kcmarine]

PM Sent.

Also, getting closer to the damned thing being all ground off. Using benchtop grinder now.

 

[kcmarine]

Got it off. Do Saigas require a special muzzle brake? I've read the position of the FSB puts it a little too far back for a normal brake.

 

[Deus Machina]

Thread the muzzle if it isn't already, and put a spacer between the sight block and muzzle brake to take up the space. Or have the brake tapped deeper. Or do away with the threading altogether and get a '74-style FSB, which has the threads already on it.

 

[SSN Vet]

I believe Dinzag sells a brake that has the correct geometry for "cut shroud" approach.

If you think the steal is hard, just wait untill you try to tap your bullet guide hole.

My $0.02...

counter sink the hole in the bullet guide to accomodate a #10 flat head screw and start with the larger tap.

You'll realy experience "hard" when you break the tiny tap and have to drill/grind that little stinker out.

 

[kcmarine]

Countersink before tapping?