Taurus 651 CIA total titanium: good or bad?

[evan price]

Thinking about buying a Taurus 651 CIA Total Titanium .357 snubbie for use as an alternative CCW when I can't carry my SIG, for example, in dress clothing, suit, etc. A local shop has them for under $400.
I've never owned a Taurus revolver and certainly this owuld be my first Titanium. Any opinions are requested. Thank you.

 

[MillCreek]

I have a 651 total titanium that I am very happy with. It was bought new in 2004 and by this time, I have probably about 600 rounds through it. Firing .357 out of it is quite the experience! I now carry the Speer Gold Dot .38+p 135 grain JHP for the short barrel. The fit, finish and functionality of my 651 was just excellent, the light weight makes it an easy pocket carry in a UM pocket holster, and I often carry it on my bicycle. The other interesting thing to me is that it had a better trigger out of the box than did some of the new S&W revolvers that I have recently handled, fired or purchased.

PS: I should mention that I also have a stainless 651 that I am happy with. I bought the titanium 651 with an eye towards being a relatively light-weight and corrosion-resistant handgun for my outdoor activities up here in the rainy Pacific NW. It fits very well in my handlebar bag on my bicycles or in a rucksack.

 

[stormwaltz]

Anybody have/seen one of those guns with the "bright spectrum blue" finish, pearl grip, gold plating? they look really nice on the net, not seen them around though. must be rare.

 

[HiWayMan]

I have the 651 in stainless. I like my snubs to have some weight to them. IMHO a titanium snub is unwarranted punishment for the shooter. Think carefully about diminishing returns. Quality has been top notch in my experience.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I have the 651 in stainless. I like my snubs to have some weight to them. IMHO a titanium snub is unwarranted punishment for the shooter. Think carefully about diminishing returns.

It has been my experience that people who buy these ultra light snubbies either don't practice because it's too painful -- and set themselves up to lose if they ever have to use them for real, or;

They do practice, develop bad habits (flinching and jerking) -- and set themselves up to lose if they ever have to use them for real.

My theory is that your gun should weigh more than your bullet.

 

[roo_ster]

I own one and authored a short review here:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=119364&highlight=651

The 651 is the heaviest of the titanium snubbies at 17oz.

 

[Jim March]

Well 17oz is what my old Charter Arms Undercover weighs - steel primary frame, aluminum grip frame, aluminum barrel with a steel core. And it's quite controllable with Remmie or Winchester 158+Ps, or the Speer 135+P. Absolutely no signs of "bullet pulling" ever.

The only rounds I can imagine *might* yank is the BuffBore 158+P doing 1,000fps from a snub, or the similar old-stock Cor-Bons. Probably be OK although I wouldn't shoot them in my gun.

My concern is that having watched the forum for quite a while, a lot of the Taurus related complaints that crop up seem to involve titanium and/or aluminum guns. Owners of steel Taurii appear to be a happier bunch.

I could very well be wrong but...that *seems* to be the trend over a matter of years.

 

[MrTuffPaws]

Good or bad, I don't know, but I bet it is painful.

 

[Jim March]

No, I've found that as long as they're not Cor-Bon or Buffbore 38+P, shooting +P in a 17oz snub isn't bad.

S&W's classic steel 36 with a 2" barrel was only a 19oz gun.

The problems seems to start below 15oz (some Taurus TI snubs), at least for most adult males - pain, lack of control and bullet yanking. By the time you hit 12oz or esp. 10.5oz (both S&W) you've gone WAY past the point of sanity.

In my opinion.

Note that I'm talking exclusively about 38+P here. In 357, I think the "sanity cut-off point" is about 20/21oz and that's only because newer medium-powered 357 loads are available that work well in snubs:

* Speer's 135gr 357Mag "short barrel".

* Remington Golden Saber 125gr.

* Cor-Bon's 125gr DPX (loaded milder than any other Cor-Bon defense ammo that I know of, for the caliber).

Ruger's SP101 is 27oz and if I recall right, most of the K-Frame 357s were in the 24 - 27oz range depending on options.

 

[8830]

I bought one the gold titaniums when they first came out. I like Taurus revolvers and prefer them to S&W. This one hurt to shoot though even with 38spls in it. I ended up selling it and going back to an Ultra Lite titanium with bobbed hammer which is lighter but better to shoot.

 

[MCgunner]

I've got a M85UL and with +Ps it's getting a little heavy in recoil. I've fired a titanium Smith with 158 Magnum loads. Trust me, you don't want to unless you wish to culture a flinching habit. Ain't that I can't shoot it, it's just not good for marksmanship. I shoot some pretty heavy calibers in hunting guns, but the .357 doesn't need to be fired in a 17 ounce gun, NO THANKS!

So, if I had one, I'd carry the same load in my UL. Why pay for titanium when I can just use an alloy .38 and be happy?

 

[Jim March]

...

 

[evan price]

Thanks for the replies, esp. jfruser's. I searched the site and didn't find anything originally which is why I asked.

Basically not a bad revovler, but beware of heavy recoil. I figured it would be no fun since the ultralight S&W I tried once was a tad bit unpleasant. But I figured on loading it with .38+p's anyway. At $369 NIB it might be a deal to consider.

 

[The Amigo]

Good revolver if you can keep the round accurate... light snubbies and magnum loads usually don't mix well. My experience with Taurus has been very good.

 

[honkeoki]

I hate to disagree, but... my experience with firing 158-grain +Ps in my S&W 442 was: PAIN

I thought maybe I was a ponce, but I spoke to some other folks at the range who agreed with me.

Later on, I read about the connection between heavy recoil in pistols and carpal tunnel syndrome Can't find a link right now, but I'm pretty sure it's true -- in my experience, if nothing else. (Stephen Wenger, of the fabulous Defensive Use of Firearms site, has switched from .357 to .38 +P loads in the last year)

I've come to believe that placement is more important than caliber. Therefore, I train to shoot lower-impact rounds more accurately -- hoping for the best possible outcome. As always, your mileage may vary.