Test of Dillon Case Lube and Affects on Reliability

[Machine154]

I have an update from the testing that I started 6 months ago on Dillon case lube affects on ammunition (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=625875) [archived - You can see some up-close photos of the primers in the archived thread]:

I am actually surprised at what it seems to indicate. A direct spray on the primers seems to have no damaging affect UNTIL powder is added to the mix. The idea of testing with powder as additional variables was added a week after I started the primary test of just sprayed primers in a bag and a control group of primers in a bag. Now I wish I would have tested more of that group with sprayed primers plus powder. Oh, well. I think I have enough information to re-evaluate my loading steps.

I realize that the test is a little extreme since I directly sprayed the primers, but I wanted to get some clear answers. Also, I suppose it is theoretically possible that the Dillon case lube had no influence and there were 3 bad primers out of the tested 5, but I really doubt it.

The failures are non-ignition of primers.

 

[Samari Jack]

I use Dillon case lube but spray the cases before decaping the old primers, plus the cases are lightly sprayed lying down. I doubt any contact with the business end of a new primer.

If you sprayed the anvil side of the new primer directly I would think most any lube would have the same effect.

 

[Machine154]

Samari Jack - My test was borne out of trying to figure out why a single digit percentage of my ~ 1 year old reloads weren't firing. Very frustrating in a competition stage.

For my regular loading, I would spray the cases in a 1 gallon ziploc and shake them up. They would then be loaded (deprimed, new primer, etc) in my Dillon 550. I only seemed to have the issue after I got into my older stock, so I traveled down this path to research it. What surprised me was that 100% of the primers fired that I sprayed with case lube, but not if there was also powder included. Somehow the powder mixing with the lube is killing the primer, from my best estimation.

 

[jmorris]

I do the same thing as Jack. I lay them flat in a cardboard box lid and spray. Then let them dry for a second before chunking them into the case collator.

I don't have a bunch of competition ammo that sits for years but I have never had problems with those that do.

 

[Bovice]

Hmmm... I use Dillon case lube for everything and I haven't had any ignition problems. I don't use w231 though. I would carefully look at primer seating

 

[Certaindeaf]

That's pretty interesting. An "n" or population of five is pretty small. Also (didn't click on the link) using 231 you're probably using carbide dies. A very small spritz or none would be recommended perhaps.

 

[Machine154]

Here is a photo from the REAL WORLD LOADS: The one on the left is from one of my failed regular reloads and the one on the right is from another random round from the same generation. The primer on the left did not look like that when I put it in the feeder tube.

This and more detail was in the original thread, but it got archived, so I couldn't continue it.

 

[Sport45]

I don't lube primed cases or prime lubed cases. And I don't lube 9mm cases at any point of the process.

What part of your process led you to soak primers in lube for testing this way?

 

[cvo]

I never spray the cases, I spray a flat pan lightly, and roll the cases on the pan.

 

[45_auto]

I've easily loaded over 500,000 9mm in the past 20 years on my Dillon 650 (with a Dillon carbide die) using your exact same ingredients. Never have had any misfires, but I've also never seen any reason to use case lube. Are your 9mm cases THAT hard to resize? What kind of dies are you using?

 

[rjrivero]

Lubing 9mm and 40cal is a foreign concept to me. I load those calibers with brass clean and dry.

 

[jmorris]

The primer on the left did not look like that when I put it in the feeder tube.

I'm having a hard time figuring out how you are having lube get on your primers. Are you dip lubing the cases and priming them before they can dry? A squirt or two per 100 is all it takes and in 30 seconds it turns into a dry film...

 

[Machine154]

jmorris - I am not directly lubing any primers in my normal reloading. I spray the cases with 2-3 shots and shake them up in a 1 gallon bag. Some lube will clearly be getting in the cases, depending on their orientation during the spray. Nevertheless, these are still cases with the old, depleted primers and not the new ones.

My only guess is that the lube and W231 are reacting slowly over time and degrading the primers via whatever interaction is going on in there. Like I said, it was only the ones that had aged for awhile that I had any problems with. And then in was a few percent.

 

[loadedround]

Why go through all this time and trouble? Switch to a carbide sizing die, either Dillon, or another preferred brand, and be done with pistol case lubing forever. Most of us old timers switched over 30 years ago and never looked back.

 

[GLShooter]

Why go through all this time and trouble? Switch to a carbide sizing die, either Dillon, or another preferred brand, and be done with pistol case lubing forever. Most of us old timers switched over 30 years ago and never looked back.

Or you could change to Hornady One Shot that is totally inert to powders and primers plus use the carbide dies and lower the force of resizing by 40%.

Greg

 

[mallc]

Clear Answer

I realize that the test is a little extreme since I directly sprayed the primers, but I wanted to get some clear answers.

Answer: Don't spray, smear, splatter ANYTHING on the fire end of your primers. Some loaders even frown on touching the anvil with your finger.

Why not decap, size and reprime right on your 550?

Scott

 

[jmorris]

My only guess is that the lube and W231 are reacting slowly over time

I don't use 231 anymore and haven't since 2003 but I just found 300 rounds that were likely part of the last batch I loaded using 231, I'll run through them and let you know if any don't function.

I spray the cases with 2-3 shots and shake them up in a 1 gallon bag.

likely back then I would chunk the cases in the case collator, squirt a few times and turn it on. A few years ago I cleaned the hunk out of my collators and now lube in a cardboard box/box lid, let dry then dump them in the collator.

Edit: the rounds I have may not be an apples to apples comparison. I think they reformulated powders a while back and the 231 I have is in a metal can. That's pretty old stuff.