Texas homeowner acquitted of shooting 13 year old.

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It was not a mistake of carelessness or negligence.

And let's not forget the criminal didn't lose his life for breaking into the home. There were four criminals involved, three of whom survived.

The criminal lost his life because he made movement which threatened the homeowner who was holding a gun on the perps!

Darwin in action.
 
Does it matter if the kids were "hardened street thugs"?

Were Dylan Klebold and Erric Harris "Street Thugs"?

No, but that did not stop them from killing 13 people and injuring 24 others. Past criminal preformance does not dictate future criminal preformance.

Jeff,
When the kid got up after being told to remain on the ground and was shot in the back, the owner could not have known if the kid was reaching into his waistband for a gun. So in my opinion you where in a better situation when you did not have to shoot that 14 year old reaching for a gun, you saw what he was doing. The owner could not see what the teen was doing in front of him with his hands, and it might have been a low light condition futher reducing visability.

About the calling his son before calling the LEO's probably not smart I would have called the ambulance before calling for my son / advice. But the son would have been 2nd call, police 3rd.

Not to bash cops but after hearing to what happened to my best friend after she got robbed at knife / gunpoint and the cops refering to her as perp / victim and her being questioned like a perp and harrassed by uniformed officers until meeting with a detective, calling the cops does not always make a bad situation better immedeatly, sometimes they add their own drama.

The guy was probably scared, and thats why he called his son. Was it the smartest / best thing to do? No. But hindsight is 20/20.
 
It’s a sad ending for the youths, but the fact of a 63yr old man faced with three teenagers breaking into his home, who are not there to do him any favors leaves little questioning about the end result. Life is about choices and the teenagers made a very poor one that will affect them for the rest of their lives.
 
Minor Thread HiJack:
You don’t mistakenly... break into a house.

Unless you're a SWAT team, [sarcasm] then it is - of course - OK [/sarcasm]. And if you shoot one of them in SD - well - Billy Bob Bubba will soon be keeping you company in a State run HOTEL. :evil:
 
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Druker said the testimony refutes Gonzalez's claim.

"Her expert opinion, I think, showed the jury that the physical evidence absolutely does not support the defensive theory that Francisco Anguiano was in the process of attacking Mr. Gonzalez," he said. "Her testimony just basically supported the statements given by the three surviving juveniles as what they described as being placed down on their knees.-----from CASSANDRASDADDY

This is from "Druker" and it is indicated that it is what Druker "thinks".

However, the Jury apparently did not lend credence to this interpreation of events.

It is very important you know, what a jury decides.

What a particular individual "thinks" does not bear the force of law.

/
 
The little hoods broke state law by committing burglary. There are a lot of states that allow deadly force to stop burglary without fear of your life, not just Texas. Maybe some folks learned not to break into houses.
 
There are a lot of states that allow deadly force to stop burglary without fear of your life, not just Texas.
Even of a home nobody is in?
Most places allow lethal force to be used to stop an intruder of an occupied residence by one of the occupants or by someone else coming to the aid of the occupants.

That is different than say coming home, knowing nobody that lives there is in your home, and then entering with the intention of shooting the burglar on sight.



So many places do not allow lethal force to be used against the burglar posing no threat, they give the presumption of a threat existing from an intruder and allow lethal force to be used.
That often means lethal force can be used to stop a burglar posing no threat by someone in the residence, but is not quite the same thing as allowing lethal force to stop the crime itself.



In this situation a man noticed individuals had broken into his place from another building. He had been burglarized a few recent times previously, and the law was obviously not able to stop it form happening again. He was fed up and determined to put a stop to it. He prepared for when it happened again. Then it did.
He grabbed a shotgun and headed out of the building he was in, and into the trailer with the burglars.

He then held them at gunpoint probably using force to gain compliance judging by the "beat with shotgun" statements. At some point during that situation he eventualy killed one of the criminals. We will probably never know the exact details of how that happened, but we do know the fatal blast was fired from a few centimeters away from the criminal's back. The law should give the benefit of the doubt to the person not engaged in felony criminal action and infringing on the rights of others: The home owner. Luckily in Texas it usualy does (even with several other criminal witnesses against him.)

In some other places things may have turned out much worse for him since he chose to put himself in that situation (of course the criminals chose to create that situation) when nobody was placed in any danger and he was in another building.
Force is allowed to be used to stop many crimes, lethal force is allowed to be used for self defense (covering far fewer crimes than allow just 'necessary force') if while stopping the crime one is required to defend themself or another.
However in many states people are regularly put into prison when the court makes the argument those steps were not seperate, but that lethal force was being used to stop a crime that did not warrant the use of lethal force.

For example in many places if you see someone commiting a crime such as felony grand theft stealing your vehicle outside you are allowed to stop that crime with force (not lethal force)and even take them into custody. If while trying to do that a lethal threat is then posed and you brought a firearm with you, then you would be justified in using lethal force in self defense.
However people are regularly put into prison for killing people trying to steal thier vehicles. I can recall several instances of that exact thing.
The court will never seperate the two actions in the prosecution, and it will generaly be believed you intended to use lethal force when not justified to stop the theft.


Texas often has incidents go in favor of the people facing criminals. However just because you see that result in Texas does not mean the same result would happen elsewhere. In fact in many situations it would end very differently elsewhere.
 
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What drivel!

All these statements of what they thought happened, based on?

Read the undisputed facts, undisputed!

Four teens broke in to a dwelling, they (not one) lived there.

One got shot dead! End of story, they are the facts, period.

Nothing else matters, the Jury of his peers said not Guilty, end of story!


middle aged now - 58 years old.
My Wife is 64 Catherine, I am 72! Middle aged? you are just a youngster.
 
Nuevo Laredo is like Chicago during the Al Capone era and the mess spills over to the U.S. side. The local law enforcement agencies are overwhelmed just dealing with major crimes. On the Mexican side, the police don’t even investigate kidnapping. There are parts of Laredo (the U.S. side) where the property crime rate is 269% of the national average. The street smart kids realize the police are spread to thin to do anything about them robbing their neighbors. It’s easy for people in their gated communities to have opinions on this, but if we lived next door to the man, I suspect we would agree with his actions.
 
My opinion:
A DA should not be allowed to give a press conference after a not guilty verdict. The district attorney is an officer of the court, and the court had legally determined that the defendent was not guilty. For the DA to say otherwise, even if his words don't legally qualify as slander, certainly is grounds for contempt.
 
Is it just me, or do some posters act as if they condone self-defense, even to the point of executing a subdued prisoner?
 
I personally think we should have a national language and require all paperwork in that one language only, but until that happens, non-English speakers are well within their right to not speak English or be obliged to do so.

I agree, but if they don't speak english they are equally free to take their chances at communication, hopefully someone will be able to help them, but if not, oh well.
 
Is it just me, or do some posters act as if they condone self-defense, even to the point of executing a subdued prisoner?

If he's trying to get up -- doing anything other than lay motionless on his stomach -- he's not subdued yet.

If he has a bunch of friends who could jump to their feet as he distracts me he becomes especially dangerous the instant he fails to comply with my instructions to lay still.

Why do you believe that people should bend over backwards and twist themselves into pretzels to give criminals the benefit of the doubt?

I happen to live in a state where if I find someone already inside my house I am required to stand there helplessly and watch him carry off DH's computer because I am restricted to using only "reasonable force" to protect property, which does not include pulling a gun.

Since I'm only 5'3" and the average 14yo boy could defeat me in wrestling for said computer without losing his grip on the case I'm supposed to watch not only the value of the equipment but also our business client records and our capability to pay next month's bills walk out the door without doing more than shrug and say "its only property."

Do you condone that? Do you think that North Carolina law, which for all practical purposes gives the large and strong the right to steal from anyone they're capable of overpowering, is right and Texas law is wrong?

IMO, the benefit of the doubt belongs only to the homeowner.

Those who break into someone's house should expect to be shot if discovered. If the homeowner decides to give them the opportunity to lie down and wait for the police instead of shooting them on sight and they don't take that opportunity I don't see how that's anyone's fault except their own. Crime is a high-risk career and I don't feel any need to shed any tears for those whose decision to commit crime turns out badly for them.
 
Apex29 said:
Is it just me, or do some posters act as if they condone self-defense, even to the point of executing a subdued prisoner?

Must be just you. What I condone is the system. Man arrested, indicted, charged, acquitted.

That's good enough for me. The last step in that, the jury, did not believe that a subdued prisoner was executed so I'm not sure why you would.
 
Your home is your castle

Why we think that criminals should be allowed some kind of 'safety' when entering somebody else's home to commit a crime is laughable. You violate the sanctity of hearth and home and you deserve whatever you get.
 
Officer's wife observed:

Only the persons in that living room can say for sure that the perps were 'subdued.'

My question wasn't about the 13 year old who got shot. From the accounts, he was making a movement which threatened the home owner.

My question has to do with the mentality of many posters here. Many seem to think that if someone breaks into your home, and even if you succeed in subduing the burgler, that it is still acceptable to take his life. After all, he's breaking the law.

So that's my question. To the Rambos on this thread, if someone breaks into your home and you succeed in subduing him, do you feel justified in killing him just for the heck of it?
 
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