The State Has a Thousand Eyes

[ChanceMcCall]

Illinois General Assembly - Bill Status for HB0888

Apparently, if this bill passes the Illinois State Police are going to start searching social media (including forums like this one) for reasons to deny Illinois residents FOID cards which is the only way to legally own, possess and buy firearms or ammunition.

There is no definition of what constitutes a reason on social media to deny a FOID application so the state police get to make up their own reasons.

Since the Chicago Democrats (now) control the House, the Senate, and the Governor's seat, and since the Democratic leadership is strongly anti gun, it seems likely this will pass.

This will require FOID card holders to supply the Illinois State Police with a list of all their social media accounts and access to those accounts. It is rumored this will include all forums, as well as Linkedin, Facebook, and whatever all the others might be.

Personally, I’m shutting down my limited social media presence since I have no idea what the ISP considers reasons for revoking one’s FOID card. Certainly, I’ll be watching the movement of this Bill closely and be ready to testify at the first hearing. I hope others will follow their favorite gun organizations about how to use your computer to register a record of appearance to show your position on this Bill.

 

[boom boom]

Illinois General Assembly - Bill Status for HB0888

Apparently, if this bill passes the Illinois State Police are going to start searching social media (including forums like this one) for reasons to deny Illinois residents FOID cards which is the only way to legally own, possess and buy firearms or ammunition.

There is no definition of what constitutes a reason on social media to deny a FOID application so the state police get to make up their own reasons.

Since the Chicago Democrats (now) control the House, the Senate, and the Governor's seat, and since the Democratic leadership is strongly anti gun, it seems likely this will pass.

This will require FOID card holders to supply the Illinois State Police with a list of all their social media accounts and access to those accounts. It is rumored this will include all forums, as well as Linkedin, Facebook, and whatever all the others might be.

Personally, I’m shutting down my limited social media presence since I have no idea what the ISP considers reasons for revoking one’s FOID card. Certainly, I’ll be watching the movement of this Bill closely and be ready to testify at the first hearing. I hope others will follow their favorite gun organizations about how to use your computer to register a record of appearance to show your position on this Bill.

This probably will not pass constitutional muster due to privacy and free speech issues and also the precedent it might set for other licenses. Best idea is to highlight the danger via letters to the editor etc. as many professions are licensed and might be affected by the precedent--should your lawyer's, doctor's, bar tender's, police applicants, hair stylist's, medical technician's, student's, etc. social media and forum postings be perused before they get a license? I suspect that put that way, a lot of non-gun owners might get a tad worried. Make it a privacy and free speech issue rather than a gun issue if you want to defeat this bill or try your luck in court.

 

[George P]

What happens if you do not supply them with any social media sites/names/passwords?
How would they even know (assuming you use fake screen names)?
Would they cancel your current FOID if you did not supply them with this information?

To ME (and IANAL), this sounds like a good test case for invasion of privacy, and a host of other wrongs by government.

 

[MEHavey]

How would they even know (assuming you use fake screen names)?

If you attested that you had given them the req'd social media/information, your deliberate concealment would be considered a false statement.

This probably will not pass constitutional muster due to privacy and free speech issues

Since the keeping and bearing of arms has increasingly become "a privilege" rather than clearly defined Right, I wouldn't count on the courts.

 

[George P]

If you attested that you had given them the req'd social media/information, your deliberate concealment would be considered a false statement.
Since the keeping and bearing of arms has increasingly become "a privilege" rather than clearly defined Right, I wouldn't count on the courts.

Again, how would they KNOW without violating other rights?

 

[ChanceMcCall]

If you attested that you had given them the req'd social media/information, your deliberate concealment would be considered a false statement.
Since the keeping and bearing of arms has increasingly become "a privilege" rather than clearly defined Right, I wouldn't count on the courts.

There are at least four felony charges that could be filed. At the very least you would lose your right to own guns in Illinois. This is what the Bill says:

(a-25) Each applicant for a Firearm Owner's Identification
20 Card shall furnish to the Department of State Police a list of
21 every social media account.
22 (b) Each application form shall include the following
23 statement printed in bold type: "Warning: Entering false
24 information on an application for a Firearm Owner's
25 Identification Card is punishable as a Class 2 felony in
26 accordance with subsection (d-5) of Section 14 of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act.".

A Class 2 felony in Illinois is punishable by three to seven years in prison and fines up to $25,000.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I would just delete all mine....

Which would then bring up the fact that the absence of a social media presence is in and of itself some kind of warning sign

 

[George P]

Guess it's time to establish some accounts on some very liberal antigun sites; that would mess with their heads.

 

[CapnMac]

How would they even know (assuming you use fake screen names)?

Some of the "Smart TVs" have an open microphone to allow for connecting to home automation and online accounts, like Netflix).

So, it's entirely possible to have an non-secured "window" right into your living room (or bedroom) unintentionally.

To misquote the legal saw, it's not an invasion of privacy if you leave the curtains open in broad daylight.

 

[George P]

Which is why I will never have an Alexa or whatever those voice-activated command devices are; they are ALWAYS listening (and recording) otherwise they wouldn't know when to respond.

 

[CapnMac]

And, there is already a bit of furor about whether the microphone on your cellphone is being monitored, and by who or what.

Google AdSense is already being accused of monitoring the phone mike, in the guise of monitoring, "Hey Google" requests to "push" ad content to you (and not just on your phone).

 

[hso]

Stay focused on the OP folks.

 

[DeepSouth]

I don’t even see anyway to fully comply with that law. I’m not a big social media guy. I’m on THR and a classic Mustang forum and that’s really it, well I have a YouTube account to. But I know I’m a member of other forums that I’m not active on. I even signed up to google plus or way back when it was google circles (I think) on accident, once I figured it out I then figured out how to close the acct.

Anyway my point is, not “entering false information” would be nearly impossible, at least for me.

 

[ChanceMcCall]

I don’t even see anyway to fully comply with that law. I’m not a big social media guy. I’m on THR and a classic Mustang forum and that’s really it, well I have a YouTube account to. But I know I’m a member of other forums that I’m not active on. I even signed up to google plus or way back when it was google circles (I think) on accident, once I figured it out I then figured out how to close the acct.

Anyway my point is, not “entering false information” would be nearly impossible, at least for me.

Isn't that the point? Just look at the 72 year old they are planning on charging with lying to the FBI. His crime? He forgot about some emails two years ago that were not even criminal in nature. Look at Stone being dragged out of his house in handcuffs at 5AM after being arrested by a huge SWAT squad with CNN filming it. If you try to renew your FOID card and they can prove you had accounts you did not list and provide access to they not only can deny your right to own a gun, they have what they need to put you in prison after they fine you. What they are hoping is that you will be too afraid to try to renew you FOID card or your concealed carry permit. Since you can't own a gun or ammo without at least a FOID card, you will need to sell all of these or face a different prison sentence. Presto! One less gun owner in Illinois!

 

[ChanceMcCall]

And, there is already a bit of furor about whether the microphone on your cellphone is being monitored, and by who or what.

Google AdSense is already being accused of monitoring the phone mike, in the guise of monitoring, "Hey Google" requests to "push" ad content to you (and not just on your phone).

Maybe that is why I'm still using a flip phone that doesn't even have working GPS.

 

[TomJ]

Isn't that the point? Just look at the 72 year old they are planning on charging with lying to the FBI. His crime? He forgot about some emails two years ago that were not even criminal in nature. Look at Stone being dragged out of his house in handcuffs at 5AM after being arrested by a huge SWAT squad with CNN filming it. If you try to renew your FOID card and they can prove you had accounts you did not list and provide access to they not only can deny your right to own a gun, they have what they need to put you in prison after they fine you. What they are hoping is that you will be too afraid to try to renew you FOID card or your concealed carry permit. Since you can't own a gun or ammo without at least a FOID card, you will need to sell all of these or face a different prison sentence. Presto! One less gun owner in Illinois!

That, and it will make people less likely to be critical of this administration on social media. Who wants to criticize the people who will approve or deny your FOID?

 

[Zerodefect]

Pretty sure that this forum doesn't block VPN's. Ya'll might want to try those.

I'm not from Illinois, but I'd be just fine as an outlaw there.

 

[jaysouth]

Pretty sure that this forum doesn't block VPN's. Ya'll might want to try those.

I'm not from Illinois, but I'd be just fine as an outlaw there.

Tennessee would be a great place if all the gun owners move here. Sadly, we get anti-gun carpetbaggers from Chicago, a hundred daily.

 

[ChanceMcCall]

Tennessee would be a great place if all the gun owners move here. Sadly, we get anti-gun carpetbaggers from Chicago, a hundred daily.

Be assured that there are Illinois gun owners moving there in droves. Many of them to Eastern Tennessee and a few to Henry County, TN that are buying farms. Any great suggestions as to where to go without spending a fortune on housing? We would also like to avoid the Chicago folks as well.

 

[jaysouth]

Be assured that there are Illinois gun owners moving there in droves. Many of them to Eastern Tennessee and a few to Henry County, TN that are buying farms. Any great suggestions as to where to go without spending a fortune on housing? We would also like to avoid the Chicago folks as well.

With the exception of Clarksville (great town but housing prices are going up), look at any county that abuts the Ky or AL border. Henry County is a great one. Stay three counties away from Nashville or Memphis. If you love chicago, you will absolutely love Memphis.LOL

 

[1861]

Land of the Free?

 

[jaysouth]

Land of the Free?

Maybe back in the day when Davy Crockett with Fess Parker was on prime time TV, but not so much these days. We do not have an income tax, our pols are probably not as corrupt as some states, and we do have decent gun laws and lots of big fish.(which still elude me most days}. If you have school age kids, community college is free and it's easy to get a good scholarship to state universities.

 

[CapnMac]

Pretty sure that this forum doesn't block VPN's. Ya'll might want to try those.

Our under-appreciated Mal could probably expound volumes on the complexities of running a world-wide forum as is, without the complications involved in trying to make it also anonymous.

Also, most beliefs ins internet anonymity can be dashed by attending jjust one DefCon or Blackhat. All this packet data the is required to make this miracle occur must needs have at least some identity. And the traffic volume also somewhat exceeds the amount of addresses which can be made anonymous (this is counter-intuitive, but, beyond a certain number range, the fact that a number exists makes it unique, and therefore, identifiable).

 

[George P]

Be assured that there are Illinois gun owners moving there in droves. Many of them to Eastern Tennessee and a few to Henry County, TN that are buying farms. Any great suggestions as to where to go without spending a fortune on housing? We would also like to avoid the Chicago folks as well.

Alabama

 

[dh1633pm]

This site would have an exceptionally hard time blocking VPN users. Since the encryption only happens between your location and the VPN Gateway, which is not this site, therefore once you reach the trusted (unencrypted side) you come over on the standard port (tcp/443) that this site uses. Unless they identified all the VPN Gateways in the world which you attempted to use and blocked those. Hard to do.

The VPN idea is to hide hide your social media accounts by hiding your IP address and/or location. It can help, but better to keep them to a minimum as part of daily life. NY is also considering the same thing regarding social media.