The stronger caliber?

[woodyjustin42]

So what recoils more the 30-06 or the the mother of all rounds the .303 british?

 

[R.W.Dale]

in the same gun

30-06 kicks more

But that nice squishy brass buttpad on your average SMLE can be quite rough.

In Recoil energy the 30-06 wins

But comparing a SMLE to a remington 700 with a limbsaver pad isn't a fair comparison in terms of felt recoil

 

[JWarren]

Here's the stats on the 303:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British

Bullet diameter 0.311 in (7.9 mm)

Case length 2.222 in (56.4 mm)


Ballistic performance
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy

150 gr (9.7 g) SP 2,769 ft/s (844 m/s) 2,554 ft·lbf (3,463 J)
174 gr (11.3 g) HPBT 2,496 ft/s (761 m/s) 2,408 ft·lbf (3,265 J)
180 gr (12 g) SP 2,568 ft/s (783 m/s) 2,636 ft·lbf (3,574 J)

Test barrel length: 24



Now looking at 30-06:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30-06

Bullet diameter 7.82 mm (0.308 in)

Case length 63.35 mm (2.494 in)


Ballistic performance
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
150 gr (9.7 g) Nosler Ballistic Tip 890 m/s (2,900 ft/s) 3,820 J (2,820 ft·lbf)
165 gr (10.7 g) BTSP 850 m/s (2,800 ft/s) 3,894 J (2,872 ft·lbf)
180 gr (12 g) Nosler partition 880 m/s (2,900 ft/s) 4,495 J (3,315 ft·lbf)
200 gr (13 g) Partition 783 m/s (2,570 ft/s) 3,975 J (2,932 ft·lbf)
220 gr (14 g) RN 750 m/s (2,500 ft/s) 4,042 J (2,981 ft·lbf)


Test barrel length: 60 cm



I'm seeing that the Energy of the .30-06 is significantly more than the .303. That energy will translate into more "power."


Nothing wrong with .303, but I've never considered it the mother of anything.


-- John

 

[eldon519]

Just curious, how do you figure the .303 to be the "mother of all rounds"? I've talked to many people who like the round, but never anyone who exalts it.

 

[skinewmexico]

I had always heard the Enfield in 303 killed on one end, maimed on the other.

 

[rcmodel]

Due more to poor stock design then being an especially powerful rifle cartridge.

The same could be said of many old military rifles of that era.

rcmodel

 

[kragluver]

Felt recoil has a lot to do with stock design and weight of the rifle (that momentum thing, you know). A full load .30-30 with 170 gr bullet in a very light weight rifle and cresent buttplate could be said to hurt; whereas it has a very mild recoil in most modern rifles.

All that said, in full military regalia, the recoil from a Lee Enfield is relatively mild. The '06 from a battle rifle is also relatively moderate, but heavier than the Enfield. Google "recoil calculator" online and you'll find several. The numbers are fun to play with.

 

[Jeff F]

Just curious, how do you figure the .303 to be the "mother of all rounds"? I've talked to many people who like the round, but never anyone who exalts it

I think he means that the .303 has been around and used a lot longer then the 30-06.

The 30-06 has a big edge on the .303, but in a rifleman's hands the .303 will get er done at some pretty long ranges. In its history it has killed a lot of people and a lot of animals and has been used in Africa ever since the British got there.

I am a .303 shooter, have a few Enfields of different flavors and have shot a lot of rounds downrange. I will put the .303 up against any 30-06 or .308 with battle sights out to 500 to 700 yards and not feel one bit under gunned.

 

[woodyjustin42]

I just meant as far as use and age etc.. I love the 30-06 nothing against it. And you can't beat a boat tailed .303 for taking down a moose. Well you could but you know what I mean. I was in a hurry last night and didnt feel like looking up the ballistics. So thx for the comparison from wikipedia just what I wanted to know, I guess I should have asked for the ballistics unstead of recoil. I kinda wanted to get some opinions or stories about the rounds also that's kinda why I said recoil.

 

[eldon519]

.303 British is pretty close in power to .308 Winchester, maybe a little milder. .30-06 in general probably has 200-300 fps on it for a given bullet weight. For the most part, it's a toss up though. Just about all the major WWII calibers are in the same ballpark. The .303 just has a really bad reputation for recoil because of the rifle it was chambered in. It wouldn't be so bad out of a Mauser or US military rifle.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I shot my first .303 about a year ago. I was suprised at the mild recoil. I've shot a .30-06 and it kicks more than I like. That said, I like the .303 better than the .30-06. Part of this is due to the no.5 mk1 carbine which is a great hunting rifle if one doesn't mind shooting with open sights. In my opinion it's the slickest and fastest bolt gun ever made and it doesn't kick the snott out of you.

 

[kragluver]

351: Try a Krag sometime. Its got about the same ballistics as the .303 and its bolt is slicker yet than the Enfield. I have one of both and they're both great fun to shoot.

 

[Tony Williams]

The .303 just has a really bad reputation for recoil because of the rifle it was chambered in. It wouldn't be so bad out of a Mauser or US military rifle.

The No.5 'Jungle Carbine' has a reputation for being a hard kicker, partly no doubt due to its lighter weight, partly down to that conical flash eliminator which acts rather like a rocket nozzle. The No.1 and No.4 don't kick hard in my experience.

I fired a .303 No.4 and a 7.92mm K98 Mauser side by side a while ago, and the Mauser kicked noticeably harder.

 

[kragluver]

Agreed -- the K98 and the M48 both kick harder than the .303 No 4. I've never shot a No. 5, but being lighter, I'll bet it does have noticeably more recoil. To me, the Mauser felt about like an '06, maybe a little worse as I think the stock does not fit me as well as the M1917 or an M1903.

 

[Hoppy590]

.303 could be considered "mother of all rounds" due to its sheer numbers in use (british empire), but even then there are more Mosin Nagants. but .303 isnt MOAC in power. the 7.62X54r, 30-06, and the king of WW2 power, the 8x56R. ( i think 8mm mauser is stronger than 303)

 

[rcmodel]

The No.5 'Jungle Carbine' has a reputation

The biggest problem with them is the stupid hard-rubber recoil pad.

It's only 2/3's as big as the butt plate would have been without it!

Not only is it hard, but not big enough to spread the recoil around.

The #5 would have been much more pleasent without it!

rcmodel

 

[learning about guns]

sry to be off topic, but what has more recoil? 30-06 or .308? and what can be added to a remington that will reduce it(what are the best kick pads?

 

[elmerfudd]

For .30-06 vs. .308, it's going to depend on the load. .30-06 has significantly more volume, but the .308 uses higher pressure. With lighter bullets they're going to be darn near identical. Perhaps one or the other would kick a tiny bit harder, but it would depend on the particular loading. With heavier bullets however, the .30-06 develops more power and will tend to kick harder.

 

[MachIVshooter]

sry to be off topic, but what has more recoil? 30-06 or .308?

All else being equal, the cartidge burning more powder will recoil harder.

That said, hunting rifles chambered in .308 tend to be a little lighter than their long-action .30-06 counterparts, and as such often have greater felt recoil.

 

[Cosmoline]

To me, the Mauser felt about like an '06, maybe a little worse as I think the stock does not fit me as well as the M1917 or an M1903.

The 8x57JS in ball and European loadings will have power on par with a commercially loaded .30'06, and more than .30 ball. It recoils more than the .303 because it's more powerful.