Think I don't like S30V steel

[the count]

Not that I am a knife expert. I just got bitten maybe a year ago but I now have over a dozen folders and a dozen fixed. From a razor sharp and sharpening point of view VG10 and VG1 have become my favorites. At the low end is a Kershaw 1670SV30. This was not a cheap folder, almost in the $90 range. While it did come somewhat sharp, even after working on it with several diamond hones and various water stones the best edge I can get on it is a not really convincing performance on the copy paper test. Forget anything thinner, that the VG's or also a Buck in 12C27M slice with ease.

 

[hso]

Are they of the same angle? That makes a big difference in cutting performance.

 

[the count]

Are they of the same angle? That makes a big difference in cutting performance.

No idea about the angles. I have a Benchmade Griptillian in 154CM which was not easy to get razor sharp but at least I succeeded. So I would say the steel is the issue, not the brand or angle of the blade.

 

[conw]

It's really probably just the geometry and maybe the heat-treat. If you want to send it to me I'll play with it and see if I can get a decent edge on it. I'm not a master sharpener but would love to try to help and see it as a challenge

 

[JAshley73]

I kind of agree. I've carried a Benchmade 615 in S30V for about five years now, and while I love the knife as a whole, I'm not a fan of the steel. I've never had much luck getting it Sharp... As much as it pains me to say it, I usually just check my manhood and send this one back to Benchmade for sharpening...

I've also heard it said that S30V needs to be hit with a strop to break the wire edge. Maybe some expert makers/sharpeners could chime in. I'd love to know the trick for it....

 

[the count]

It's really probably just the geometry and maybe the heat-treat. If you want to send it to me I'll play with it and see if I can get a decent edge on it. I'm not a master sharpener but would love to try to help and see it as a challenge

Thanks for the offer but I like challenges myself. Just for the record, so far I had gone through these steps...150, 300 and 450 grit diamond hone, 1000 and 6000 water stone, linen and then leather strop. And like I said I got the knife sharp, but nowhere near sharp to cut flimsy paper with (copy paper yes with some hesitations). No prob, I have plenty of other toys to keep me busy My pride and joy is currently a Fallkniven S1. That knife came so sharp its truly amazing...

 

[Gordon]

The SV30 "Foam" was designed to make knife manufacturers happy I have been told by more than a few makers . I have gotten rid of the couple customs made of it I won in raffles as it is the worst stuff to sharpen I've seen yet AND I know of two folks who had (maker deleted) of theirs snap off and the exposed grain structure looked like sea foam.

 

[floorit76]

I have carried a Benchmade 940 in S30v for 4-5 years. I find it plenty easy to sharpen, and holds an edge very well. Though I seldom try for a "Razor" edge. It took all of a minute or two a few mornings ago before work to bring it back to an edge that would shave arm hair. I use my knife many times a day as an electrician to strip large wire, de-bur pvc pipe, and cut all kinds of thing like boxes and shrink wrap.

 

[hso]

The bevel angle, heat treat and the material are the three pillars of sharp.
Different materials work best for different applications and different "toothyness".
Without the proper heat treat to get the edge to perform without over hardening the blade the edge won't hold or take.
Different angles to the bevel determine whether you're going to get razor sharp or field tough. For razor sharp applications S30V isn't the best choice, but for a less acute angle on the bevel and a coarser grit you'll get better performance.

Without all three, angle, material, heat treat, you can't get good performance from a blade.

 

[Zeke/PA]

Stick with the "old standards" like O-1 and D-2 and you will be way,way ,way ahead.
The new stuff has it's following but so be it.
You want a SUPER knife with no doubhts?
Stick with the "old stuff".
I want to REALLY talk to a Dude that can really say that he has a superior knife compared to mine of a D-2 origin.

 

[floorit76]

While I have yet to own a D2 knife, and am definitly a fan of S30v. I would never be so arrogant as to call it "better". As I said in a PM conversation with The Count, material used and the edge applied to it, should be appropriate to the task at hand. He is looking for a steel that can be honed to an extremly high level. S30v has not performed the way he wanted it to. And as I stated before, I prefer a working edge that stays that way for as long as possible. So far S30v has worked fine for me in this role. I'm not apposed to trying D2, but I'm a real fan of the Benchmade 940 and while I believe it is available in D2, it may be awhile before I get around to buying one. I'm about as big a fan of "old tech" as you will find in someone of my age. But there are lots of areas that I have found that "new tech" can meet and exceed the old stuff IF you do your research and pay for the quality that you want. I don't have the time to search up and post metalurgical charts and graphics, I just know what has worked for me.

 

[JTW Jr.]

I have knives of D2 , S30v , CPMD2 , Ats-34 and N690. As well as 01 and 1095.

Truth be told the majority of people would not be able to tell the difference in use.

I have no problem sharpening any of those steels , working with them prior to hardening state I can tell the difference in grinding the blades, as well as drilling the holes for handle bolts.

as HSO said " Without all three, angle, material, heat treat, you can't get good performance from a blade".

There are more piss poor home heat treated 01 and 1095 blades out there than there are S30v and ATS34. People who work with the steels like S30v , S35v, etc if they don't have the proper HT equipment will send it out to someone that does , however many seem to think that " heat to non-mag and quench in some oil" will result in a decent heat treat for 01 & 1095 ( and other high carbon steels ) , which is very far from being realistic.

 

[floorit76]

I bought a knife a few weeks ago. While I was waiting at the counter, the saleman showed me his spiderco. It was a Schempp in Cpm 3v IIRC. He assured me that it would cut my 940 in S30v, and just about any other knife in the case "clean in two". And "It has a big old blood groove, just in case if he ever had to shank anybody, at least he could pull it back out". Very informative exchange that was.

 

[bikerdoc]

Never had any trouble getting my old Spyderco Native in S30v razor sharp.

Try a Lansky or Gatco if you cant do it free hand.

Aso reread HSO's advice

 

[the count]

Never had any trouble getting my old Spyderco Native in S30v razor sharp.

Try a Lansky or Gatco if you cant do it free hand.

Aso reread HSO's advice

Once again...just so we are all on the same page. My personal definition of truly sharp is:

1st test: will slice through regular copy paper without any hesitation whatsoever (slow cut). Thin slices right next to each other (like feathering).

2nd test: will slice through flimsy catalog paper (like Cabelas) with no or almost no hesitation.

I only have 4 knives that came sharp enough out of the box (not even stropping) to pass both tests: Fallkniven S1 (the champ), Cold Steel SRK in VG10 San Mai, Cold Steel Pendelton Hunter VG10 and a Boker Ceramic Folder. Keep in mind that the S1 and SRK are big beefy knives so their performance is even more impressive.

 

[bikerdoc]

Once again...just so we are all on the same page. My personal definition of truly sharp is:

1st test: will slice through regular copy paper without any hesitation whatsoever (slow cut). Thin slices right next to each other (like feathering).

2nd test: will slice through flimsy catalog paper (like Cabelas) with no or almost no hesitation.

I agree completly and use the same tests.
I also use register receipt paper from stores.

 

[hso]

He assured me that it would cut my 940 in S30v, and just about any other knife in the case "clean in two". And "It has a big old blood groove, just in case if he ever had to shank anybody, at least he could pull it back out". Very informative exchange that was.

Yep, it tells you to disregard what he has to say.

BTW, this is what the Tuff looks like for anyone curious.

 

[JShirley]

Floorit,

That's the Spyderco Schempp Tuff, as shown here from Cutlery Shoppe. It is tough, but not sure if even 3V will cut most modern knives in half. Also, the fuller adds stiffness while reducing weight, and gives another opening method.

(edit- I see hso has already spoken to this while I was waiting for Cutlery Shoppe's website to load. )

John

 

[floorit76]

The way this guy talked about it, it was more of a light saber than a knife. Nice guy, just a bit over-enthusiastic. I did a bit of reading about 3v this morning. It sounds like an improvement, but not a quantum leap.

 

[dmak04]

I have a white river knucklehead in s30v and can shave my face with it. I honestly think its past razor sharp and into scalpel sharp. I have no problem sharpening it. 5 minutes with the sharpmaker and 5 minutes stropping and it definitely passes your copy paper, flimsy paper test. I would check the angle your sharpening at

 

[the count]

He assured me that it would cut my 940 in S30v, and just about any other knife in the case "clean in two"

Ok, now I've heard it all. Look, anybody can claim anything. Just like some guys on the gun boards that say they shoot 1/2" groups at 300 yards with a plain jane Rem 700... And let me add, my 'sharpness tests' only say something about sharpness, nothing else. Just a small part of the equation. I can take a top of a can of beans and make that so sharp you can shave with it. Take a look at some of the knife destructions tests on youtube by that Noss guy. I think his 2 overall best performers were a Fallkniven A1 and a Busse battle mistress. No super-duper-high-tech powder steels!

 

[JShirley]

Busse battle mistress

Isn't that INFI?

J

 

[the count]

Isn't that INFI?

J

"INFI is a proprietary steel and heat-treat protocol developed by Busse Combat Knife Co. It is ONLY available through Busse Combat.

In one of our performance tests, we bend a Battle Mistress 35 degrees in a vise and it springs back to true."

Does not sound like a powder steel to me...

 

[Madcap_Magician]

I think I read somewhere that metallurgical analysis of INFI said it was most like 5160. Could be wrong.

I like VG10 myself, but a good S30V edge stays for a long time. Very toothy. Also a real pain to sharpen when it does eventually get dull, which, granted, takes a long time.

 

[rcmodel]

I don't like 154-CM much either.

I have two older Benchmades with AST-34 blades that continue to scare me every time I use them.

The newer and more expensive 154-CM one?
Not so much.

It seems there is just no way to get a lasting edge on it.
It can be shaving sharp one day, and not enough "tooth" the next day to cut a sapling in one stroke.
Without being used at all.

Before you ask?
No, it is not edge angle, or blade thickness, or sharpening methods.
It just won't stay sharp in my pocket with no use like AST-34 blades.

It seems the Edge Elves lick it smooth at night or something!

rc