Thinking about Firearms for Home Defense

[Kleanbore]

A number of years ago, so someone posted a demo on the subject of whether a woman untrained in the use of firearms would be better served with a revolver, a shotgun, or an AR.

The "test", as I recall, involved shooting at a torso target outdoors, at something like, or maybe more than, seven yards. Don't hold me to the distance.

The shooter was ineffective with the big revolver. She did poorly with the 12 ga pump shotgun, and was so unhappy wit the recoil that she refused to shoot it more. She did well with the AR.

What did that demo show us? It showed how one person fared with different weapons when she had the gun in hand and knew in advance where the target would be--in an outdoor scenario.

Neither portability nor sound pressure nor possible over-penetration was very important.

Some of what was shown in the demo was worthwhile. When a neighbor of mine mused about acquiring a shotgun for home defense, I told him about the experiment and suggested hat he might find an AR easier to use.

In a real HD situation, we may or may not be able to access the gun timely, and we will not know where in the house the invaders will be at any particular time

I think it is a mistake to assume that a home invasion will occur when one is in the bedroom, or that the resident will necessarily be afforded sufficient warning to get to the gun or to the safe room.

Some of the scarier home invasions in our area have involve multiple perps; some have occurred in mid-day when the residents were nowhere near their bedrooms; and with virtually no warning.

I suggest that before people decide upon which firearm(s) to acquire and where to keep them, they consider those realities and perform a structured risk analysis and risk mitigation analysis.

Risk analysis starts with identifying the risks.

I'll list a few for starters:

• One or more criminals, likely violent if confronted, may enter a residence forcibly at any time of day.
• The defender may not be near where a long arm is kept at the time, and may not be able to access it timely.
• The residents, adults and/or children, will likely not all be in the same place at the time.
• The intruders will most likely be armed, and be willing and programmed to shoot instantly if they are endangered.
• Extensive study and simulation have shown that if the defender attempts to move about and leaves the safety of cover, things are unlikely to end well.
• The probability that an "intruder" is a child returning home, a relative, a friend of the family, a neighbor, someone the the wrong address, or another innocent is greater than zero.

There are more of course, but let's stop there for the time being.

The next steps are to analyze the risks and consider mitigation strategies.

I suggest that those should encompass much more than choosing firearms and deciding where to keep them

 

[scaatylobo]

In 26 years as an LEO, its safe to say that I had to "clear" a few hundred buildings that I had never been in.

Offices,construction sites,pharmacys,wharehouses,homes [ mostly homes], trailers.

I learned what "pucker factor" was [ tasting your butthole in the back of your throat ].

And I learned that MY TRUTH [ note capitols ] was that a pistol [ revolver or auto ] was my choice as I needed to close up distances and to open doors ,AND hold a flashlight.

I have made the bet = and won,too many tomes to count.

The bet is,you have to find me in YOUR home,before I get to shoot you.

Even with as much care as possible ,all found that they had to walk or crawl into MY LINE OF FIRE,while I waited them out.

This being MY TRUTHS,a HD gun is what your close to and have TRAINED with under those circumstances.

rant off.

 

[The Evangelist Cowboy]

Love the post, Im sure this would go along with whatever plan you and your family have. For instance we have taught our children not to open the door for anyone and to always get mom,dad, or uncle (my wifes brother is 15 and lives with us, I have taught him about firearms and he can effectively run his 20 ga well), when the glass breaks the kids are our primary concern, we get them to fortified position and we wait, I am not LEO, I was Army but that doesnt mean i have the training for clearing buildings. BIL (brother in law) has his 20 ga pump with buck and slugs, wife has her 10/22 and 9mm shield, I am rocking a 629 and a Hi Standard 12 ga. I agree with the AR being a damn good weapon for the laymen, i think most trainers would agree with that.

 

[Anchorite]

The revolver seems such a universal tool ... easily recognizable ... that anyone ought to be able to manipulate one. Far easier than an AR or a shotgun. IMO.

 

[Kleanbore]

I suggest that those should encompass much more than choosing firearms and deciding where to keep them

Start with a mitigation strategy, acquire the equipment, and develop a plan.

Suggestion--interior cameras and intercoms can provide knowledge, and knowledge is power.

Better to know who is where, if anyone, that to traipse around looking for people and imitating the actors on NCIS and believing that the gun wii ward off bullets.

 

[Jeff White]

The gun you choose is not really important. People have successfully defended their homes with everything from single shot shotguns to an old break top revolver. Your time, money and energy will be better spent hardening your home. The harder you make it for someone to get in, the more time you will have to execute your plan to defend the home. Start with early warning. If you live in the country a driveway alarm. If you live in town, a video doorbell or a sensor at the door that warn when someone is there. Shrubbery or other obstacles under windows. Good locks.....and most importantly...a plan that everyone understands and has rehearsed.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I live in a 3 room (4 if you count the bathroom) apartment on the second floor.

We chose the second floor for security. We don't have a balcony, to enter through the window they'd have to climb a flat wall without anyone noticing in broad daylight. Anyone willing to do that is looking specifically for us and there's not going to be too much we can do to stop them.

Our only door opens into a hallway and it's barred. They may kick it in but not without giving us plenty of advance notice. We also have a standing rule that we do not open our door until we know for certain who is on the other side.

There's only one person in this building who was here when we moved in. None of our other neighbor's have ever been in our home and have no idea what we may have worth stealing. There's also no one here who saw me coming or going in my armed guard getup. Our neighbors have no reason to suspect we own guns or that we have a lot of cash on hand (we don't). Anyone who breaks in here is going to make a lot of noise and draw a lot of attention to themselves doing it. I go out of my way not to give anyone any reason to think my apartment has anything in it worth the trouble and I can't imagine anyone randomly selecting my apartment when my idiot neighbors on the first floor sleep with their windows wide open.

Those are all steps I've taken to mitigate the risk of our home being selected before even needing a gun.

I have a gun on my person anytime I'm not in bed or in the shower and then it's within arm's length. I also have a cell phone on me or right there so we can get the cops rolling. The gun is a Glock 26 with a 12 round magazine most of the time.

The truth is that if all the stars planets align and a crew of more than 2 guys actually get into my house I'm screwed. I don't have enough space to trade for time. So I try to make it next to impossible for them to get in without the whole world knowing about it.

 

[Kleanbore]

The gun you choose is not really important. People have successfully defended their homes with everything from single shot shotguns to an old break top revolver. Your time, money and energy will be better spent hardening your home. The harder you make it for someone to get in, the more time you will have to execute your plan to defend the home. Start with early warning. If you live in the country a driveway alarm. If you live in town, a video doorbell or a sensor at the door that warn when someone is there. Shrubbery or other obstacles under windows. Good locks.....and most importantly...a plan that everyone understands and has rehearsed

All great advice!

I started with the subject "thinking about firearms'" to have a discussion about why buying a gun and keeping it on the nightstand or in a safe cannot make the family safe.

We've had enough "rifle or shotgun" palaver that does not reflect reality.

Choosing the gun first leads to the mental scripting of screenplays to go with the gun That's backwards.

Identify and analyze the risks, and then start working on mitigation approaches.

Then consider firearms and where to keep them,

 

[FL-NC]

All guns are worthless if they are inaccessible. Just like a life jacket on shore is worthless to a person drowning in a lake, or an unused seat belt during a car wreck. I think anyone with even a little bit of smarts can agree to that. If someone chooses to kick in a door or window and enter your house, the victim(s) will not have a choice of when this happens or where they will be located in the house at that time. The solutions to that in my house involve 2 elements- 1- realistic scenario-based training, and 2- insuring multiple firearms in multiple locations are accessible to the occupants of the home.

 

[bdickens]

3- keeping it on you.

 

[LNK]

Layers trumps gun selection most every time. We are rural, neighbors are far apart. We all watch the little road we live on. We have cameras covering any avenue of approach. Guinea hens roaming the property during the day, go nuts anytime something not belonging here shows up. They have chased off stray dogs. We have 2 large indoor dogs, that bark whenever they think they hear something. Living on a farm, my gp100 is carried all day, everyday. My wife has a m&p9c on her most of the time, when I remind her to.
We lock up at night, the dogs have the run of the house. We have an alarm, but don't use it as we are always here. While I think gun selection is important, there are many more important steps you can take.
Toe guy living in an apartment, don't get guineas.

 

[JERRY]

home defense is a layered design. fences, outdoor lighting, locked doors, dogs, alarms systems, common sense, and firearms all play a role.

if you don't have a fence, get one. you'd be surprised what even a 3.5" chain link fence deterrent does. if you don't have a dog, don't get one. you'd have one by now if you cared for them. outdoor lighting is cheap, why aren't at least your porch lights on? alarms systems, nice advanced notice when you are home, nice visual deterrent signs as well (makes your neighbors more attractive to the criminal element), but they are golden for when you are not home. they won't necessarily stop a criminal from breaking in, but it will stop them from making a sammich in your kitchen while they decide what to take next, plus the cops are coming now and they know it. common sense, too vast to go over here. you either know it can happen to you or you think it won't, act accordingly. firearms, get one, learn it, practice with it, have in your mind that its you or them, because in real life that is exactly what's at stake.

bottom line, if you don't have control over who comes and goes in your own house, you will be victimized in some fashion, usually first it will be by your adult children's friends.

 

[FAS1]

Regarding firearms, my home defense plan starts with the P3AT that's always in my front pocket. At night, my primary shifts to my G17 that's in my FAS1 safe bolted to my bed frame. Having a gun quickly accessible at all times is more important than which one to me. Long guns are in the big safe and that's the direction my wife would be going with my G26 (carry gun stored in FAS1 at night) and dialing 911 on her cell phone. She will have a 12 gauge and a rifle already chambered with safeties on when she opens the safe and hunkers down.

 

[bassjam]

I keep 4 different firearms locked up in 4 different rooms in the house, on both levels. Each of the handgun safes operates in an identical manner, each of them has a flashlight kept inside with identical operation. And while I don't have 4 identical handguns, they all are DA/SA, striker fired, or a revolver so there's no safety to be concerned about and my wife has spent time with each of them, and are loaded with 9mm or .38sp +p so she's not afraid of the recoil.

A year ago I had what was at the time a real scare when my wife and I thought someone was in the basement so I had an "opportunity" to run through my plan. With one of my kid's bedroom in the finished basement on a different level from the rest of us, just getting the entire family safe in one room isn't exactly an option for me. Of course walking down stairs where there might be an intruder isn't an option either. What worked for me is using my dog to clear rooms. While he's "just" a Golden Retriever and not a guard dog, he'll bark or growl at strangers and is well trained enough that I could send him down the stairs without exposing myself, and likewise I could send him into rooms as I opened the doors hidden from view. His natural desire to find food on the floor meant he quickly scoured the entirety of each room he entered, letting me know it was safe for myself to enter. I still don't know what made that loud crashing sound in the house, but I'm glad to know for certain now that I can count on my dog to help when it's needed.

 

[Kleanbore]

i

Of course walking down stairs where there might be an intruder isn't an option either.

It took me a very long time to realize that.

 

[Milt1]

There are a lot of good ideas in this thread. One thing I want to mention is that not all of your family members may be able to handle anything centerfire. Many of our lady friends have bad cases of arthritis and anything greater than a .22 pistol is too much for them. Having a .22 is still a deterrent and it may be sufficient. I'd rather one of these ladies have a .22 than an empty hand.

 

[JTHunter]

The master bedroom in this 60 y.o. 1-story house is at the end of a hallway with two windows, one of which is over the outside AC unit. It would be nearly impossible to climb out those windows, esp. for this "senior citizen". That is why there is a gunrack on the wall next to the bed with a rifle, shotgun, and revolver on it. The shotty is an older SxS with double triggers (OO Buck in one side, #4 Buck in the other) with the ability of firing both barrels and throwing a "cloud" of 55 pellets. The rifle is an AK with a 40-round banana, and the revolver is a .357 with two Speedloaders on the belt.
Between having had a home invasion ~30 years ago AND being an "old" Boy Scout, I like "being prepared".

 

[Kleanbore]

The master bedroom in this 60 y.o. 1-story house is at the end of a hallway with two windows, one of which is over the outside AC unit. It would be nearly impossible to climb out those windows, esp. for this "senior citizen". That is why there is a gunrack on the wall next to the bed....

Is it your plan to defend yourself on the occasion of a criminal entry that might occur when you happen to be in the bedroom, or can you get to that rack in a few seconds from wherever you happen to be at the time?

 

[Koroner]

Lots and lots of variables.

In my case; no kids, alone, big house, cameras on inside closed circuit, cameras outside use radio (somebody driving by trying to monitor crib camera only sees I am watching HIM, walls outside foot thick concrete (no fear of hitting distant neighbors) upscale neighborhood sees lots of LEOs on patrol.

By the bed a longslide Glock 9 with Surefire light, and Kimber TLE (.45) with Surefire light and laser.
Hall closet; 2 ARs (one with light and laser) and a Shockwave.
Office 2 .44spl and a headlamp and flashlight
Guest room ; whatever she wants
Gun room ; ,......no shortage

 

[labnoti]

I'll pose a slightly different problem. Instead of using an untrained person, how about someone somewhat trained? I don't mean someone necessarily highly-skilled or proven, just someone "average" willing to do due diligence and take about 48 hours (6 days) of training every year, and practice at least once a month. This is perhaps only two 2-day classes on the weekends and another two days "use of force" class that isn't about weapons manipulation.

In their first year, they may not possess much cumulative training, but after three or four years, it starts to add up. Maybe even one year they spend their training budget on a weeklong class at Gunsite or Roger's. Between the training and practice, they're developing their "personal best" in terms of performance.

But wait. Are they focusing on handgun, or dividing their attention between handgun, carbine, and shotgun? To learn all three weapons equally well, it seems like their training and practice budget would have to be expanded substantially. To what degree would their skill with one weapon increase even farther if they didn't diversify? It seems reasonable to believe that at some point, their skill development with a single weapon would be limited by diminishing returns for additional training within a timeframe. Practically speaking, how many people are reaching that limit?

Outside the home, how practical is the carbine or shotgun? How likely is it to be available when needed outside the home? Inside the home, how practical is it to keep the carbine or shotgun readily available? In every room? How much of an advantage does the carbine or shotgun offer inside the home?

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Something to consider: Embracing technology to make your life easier can with the right setup make your home easier to defend. We, like many homes have our home integrated with smart devices. One of those is an Alexa 8" touchscreen in the bedroom. We can use it to control every light in the house, watch all the video cameras in and around the house and listen in through any of the other devices in the house. You can also set up custom command controls, like a panic command that will cause the house to perform certain functions like turn on all the lights to their brightest and call the police.

Or, if you are crazy, you have it turn all the lights in your house red, announce "Shooter Ready", play the shot timer beep then start playing "Let the bodies hit the floor" through all of your speakers...

Kidding on that last one. That's lawyer bait.

Anywho, the point is that a good defensive plan should incorporate every possible advantage. No one who ever won a life and death fight ever complained because the odds had been stacked too far in their favor.

 

[Kleanbore]

Great post, Click!

Again, the subject "Thinking about Firearms" was chosen to start the discussion where many of our threads begin ("rifle or shotgun?", etc.), present the need for identifying analyzing the risks that are our objective to mitigate, and point out that before we get into the usual question, there are quite a few things to think about first.

After we have considered how we will (1) defend ourselves tactically, and (2) avoid getting shot or shooting an innocent, using knowledge provided via technology, etc., we can start thinking about where we can keep one or more firearms, and then choose firearms and develop our plans.

Starting with "I'll get the most effective firearm i can find and, of course, keep it near the bed" is going about things backwards.

That may wll lead to a choice of weapons and storage that will not be likely to work well for us in quite a number of scenarios, or at some of the times of day when we may need to use them.

 

[qwert65]

My wife and I keep a small gun stashed in the kitchen(though with the kids getting older this may soon change) the rest are locked up in the bedroom.
Our driveway is 300 feet long and our porch (20x16)is fenced with stock panels borderd with wood(sounds tacky but looks nice, and keeps the kids and dogs in) and has a locking gate.
Our back door is sourrounded by chain link fence (where we let our dogs run)
Our dogs are our alarm system- a schnauzer 35lbs and threePitts all 90lbs
And yes we have several false alarms a week with opossum and raccoons but we praise them every time.
We are on 40 acres so most ppl have no business being near our home which certainly helps
However my sketchy clients still seem to track me down but so far everyone’s been afraid of the dogs

In our situation I feel that we will have enough warning to arm ourselves night or day since even if the dogs aren’t paying attention they will realize someone bypassing eithier fence( and still need to get past the doors)
Occasionally we have our ccw on us but usually take them off since the kids are a little grabby(and with three under the age of 5 ones always up to something

 

[bdickens]

I don't even wanna ask about "sketchy clients...."

 

[qwert65]

I don't even wanna ask about "sketchy clients...."

Lol I’m a racetrack veterinarian most of my clients are great ppl who eithier respect my boundaries or just stop by to ask a question- however gambling and cash always attracts a certain element and since ppl assume I’m rich and know I have controlled substances I’ve had a couple interactions over the years- less so since I’ve moved
The only time I had to point a gun at someone was when they were banging on the door of my camper yelling cmon doc! Give me some money! ( it was 3am)