Thinking of building a Savage

[rauchman]

Greetings all,

I have a few questions regarding, of course, a Savage rifle. Actually, I was quite inspired by the Desert Savage that a gentleman put together here. The Savages seem very desirable to me in that they seem much more modular than a Remington or other brands. Anyway, here are my questions:

1. Since I would be replacing the stock anyway, is it possible to get a barreled action from Savage or do I have to get the whole rifle?

2. From what I have gathered, the Sharp Shooters Supply stock, the Bell & Carson stock, and the McMillan stock are the popular favorites. Out of these 3, which would you take and why?

3. A local store by me has the police, non-accutrigger, 20" barrel .308 rifle for sale at $399.99 with Bushnell scope. Is this a decent deal? Would this be a good platform to build a rifle from?

4. If I go for the rifle mentioned in question # 3, which trigger would be recommended for target shooting?

By the way, I'm not into hunting so this would be for shooting out to 300 yards and of course the old SHTF scenario?

Thanks for your time,

Ken

 

[Steve Smith]

I don't know whether you can get a barrelled action from Savage or not. Personally, I'd scour gun shows and such for someone selling one used. Savages go for pennies on the dollar here. That "Police" model you're talking about would go for well under $300 here, and they typically have little wear. Most folks buy one just because they "want one," play with it for a few weeks, and then forget about it, eventually selling it to finance a new toy.

Bell & Carlson? No thanks. Check this out for just three guy's opinions: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75175 but there's more folks out there that hate em. Can't go wrong with McMillan.

Bushnell isn't a very good scope, again I suggest looking for used, sans scope. $399 is too much, IMHO. You need a "friendly" dealer. Time to start making friends.

That Accu-trigger, though funky, certainly gives a nice pull.

 

[dakotasin]

i wouldn't build a savage, but if that's what you want:

1- look for a used gun. if you buy a new barrelled action from savage (if you could - i don't know), it will cost nearly the same money.

2- mcmillan stock. only alternative is hs precision. not a b&c under any circumstance.

3- don't buy the package deal. for precision shooting, the first thing that will have to go is the scope.

4- depending on how much money you want to spend on the trigger, look into something like rifle basix, jewell, shilen, or timney. not all of these guys make a savage trigger, so you'll have to look... jewell is the route to go, if they have one.

since what you want to do w/ the gun is predominantly target, get a heavy barrelled gun. the heavy gun will dampen recoil, and heavy barrels are a little easier to get to shoot well than a sporter. look for a scope that will grant at least 15x magnification. if you plan to shoot long range, you'll want more, but for 300 and in, 15x is more than enough.

should also add that i like long barrels. while 20" would work, i would hold out for something like 26".

last, don't limit yourself to only savage. there are other excellent rifles out there that will do everything you want to do, and some are that way from the factory (meaning the extra $300 on the stock is saved, and some even come w/ triggers that are serviceable).

 

[ocabj]

1. Barrelled actions Savage are not available (at least for now).

2. The Bell & Carlson Duramaxx ($90) isn't a bad stock, but it's not a great stock, either. People bad mouth it but most have never actually owned a Duramaxx. I wrote a review of it for SavageShooters. It's in the March issue but for some reason the link isn't available on the reviews page. No worries, I have the review mirrored on my site.

That said, I'd go with the Sharpshooter Supply varmint/tactical unpainted ($200). They have an A-5 clone coming out sometime this year. No definite word on a release date last time I checked. Check out the SavageShooters.com forums for any futher news regarding the SSS A-5 clone.

Of course, you could do what I did and just get a McMillan A-5 ($500 +/-).

3. That package deal could be ok if you know which Bushnell it comes with. If it's the Bushnell 3200 Elite 10x Mildot, then it's actually a decent budget scope. If it is the 3200 10x mildot, it goes for about $185 give or take depending on sales and vendors. You could sell it for about $150 and basically cut the cost of the rifle down to $250. My only qualm about the rifle is it's the 20". Most people would prefer a 24 or 26" barrel, but I think with load development, a 20" barrel will not be a limitation in precision shooting (even up to 1000yds).

4. SSS has a couple triggers as well as Timney.

Good luck in your project. There's a lot of anti-Savage sentiment in the shooting community. Don't let that disuade you from going the Savage route. Granted, there's no reason why you shouldn't go Remington 700 or Tikka. In the end, whether you choose Savage, Remington, or Tikka, you will end up with a good rifle.

 

[rauchman]

Thanks for your replies so far. Maybe I should have clarified further on what I'm looking for. Really, I'm just looking for a rifle to have fun with. The Savages seem like a decent deal since I can replace parts without the need for a gunsmith, ie. barrel, trigger, stock, etc. From what I have read, they are just as accurate as a Remington, Tikka, etc. Believe me, I would rather have a Remington PSS or VS, just because I like them better. Why do I like them better...I've never shot one, but I like the, I hate to say this, but I like the look better. Part of me likes to tinker. I loved Legos as a kid and am always looking to tinker with stuff. Actually made an M-16 from Legos with spring powered moving bolt, collapsable stock, mags that drop out, and adjustable sights as a kid. The Savage seems like the better platform for me to do that with. Just the idea alone that I can change out the barrel on the Savage is very appealing to me. Maybe I'm totally wrong in thinking that the Savage is the only rifle I can do this with. Can you totally tinker with a Remington without a gunsmith?

Anyway, as I mentioned, I'm not into hunting. Just want a rifle that I can call mine, that will really shoot well, that I can tinker with, that is not too expensive, and most of all, that I can have fun with.

thanks,
Ken

 

[Steve Smith]

You can tinker with any of them, but some tinkering is just better left to the pros. Remember always work on the cheapest item. Although I have owned several Savages and I know their reputation for accuracy, I don't like the way the bolt feels. Perhaps you should do some more touchy feely research before laying down greenbacks.

 

[dakotasin]

rauchman- not true!

you can replace the stocks on any rifle, no 'smith required.

you can replace the triggers on any of them, no 'smith required.

you can not replace the barrels on any of them without the proper tools and skills. this is a job for a 'smith. done poorly, this may make a huge mess.

you can tinker w/ a remington firing pin assembly (titanium pins, spring), and shroud and stuff w/ no gunsmith, but you should have a 'smith help w/ the savage pin.

for what you are saying you want, and if you like the rem better, go remington. if you went the vls route, you'd get the 26" barrel, and a trigger that you can work into something very nice yourself. the stock on the vls is very stable and does not need replacement, unless you just want to. it does not need it.

last point... on barrel changes... many people like to think that it can be done fairly easy on a savage (should be left to a 'smith), and even if it could, how often are you going to change the barrel??

 

[dakotasin]

also wanted to ask...it seems that you are new to rifles... if that is true, are you sure you want a 308? while it is not abusive, new shooters might be more comfy w/ a 223 or 22-250 in a heavy barrelled platform. ammo is less expensive, and recoil is less...

 

[rauchman]

dakotasin,

Yes, I am relatively new to rifles. I do have a few .22lr rifles and a Bushmaster AR. From what I have read, I would ideally like something in a 6.5mm, but ammo is far from cheap. For the .223, well I see it as more of an AR type round. I've been wanting a .308 for a while. Something with more umph to it over the .223. I may pick up a .223 at some point but right now I have a .308 itch that needs to be scratched. Ideally, I would love to get an AR-10, but it is way out of my price range right now. Also, if I ever do find a longer than 300 yard range, I may be terribly wrong here, but I think the .308 would do better than the .223.

 

[Steve Smith]

Wrong again. The .223 out of the right guns can be much more accurate at distance than the .308. Surprising, but true!

 

[rauchman]

Uggghhhhh :banghead:

For Steve Smith,

Ok, let's say I go with the .223, again I may be very wrong here ( and probably am ), but I understand the .223 is very dependant on bullet weight and rifling twist. Maybe I'm saying this incorreclty. From what I've read, with the .308 anything from 150gr or so up to 175gr should fly decent from a barrel with a twist of somewhere around 1 in 10 (give or take an inch). I understand with the .223 they usually come in twist rates of 1/12, 1/9, or 1/7 and that anything at or under 55gr works well in the 1/12, from 55gr up to somewhere around 67gr will work well with 1/9, and anything over 67gr (maybe 69gr) should work well with the 1/7. It seems to me there is more flexibility with the .308. So, really what I'm asking in a very long winded way, what twist rate would you recommend on the .223?

 

[fslflint]

dakotasin

the Idea of a modular rifle is what he is looking for. I like the savage design and the rifles seem to fit me nicely. I like the bolt and the new trigger and love the accuracy, thus I am a big savage fan. the barrel nut system on a savage means that a barrel can be replaced without the need for a smith. just a casing to adjust headspacing. this means that with 2 bolt heads (a magnum and a regular) you can have any caliber in a long action rifle from a 300 Remington ultra mag (soon 338 lapua) to a 223 or 22-250. and the short actions are just as versatile just with less caliber selection. as far as I know this is more versatile than a remington. maybe other brands can be tinkered with but in some cases a barrel, trigger, stock, scope mount etc can mean that the owner can build his rifle to his specs without the nead for a smith to do any of the work.

ps, where I am from that price on the 10fp is a decent price. my next rifle will be based on a 110fp with a SSS thumbhole stock and the accu-trigger. probably will go with 300 win mag and eventually an extra barrel in 308, maybe the other way around.

 

[Steve Smith]

I'd always recommend a 1:7 or 1:8 twist, unless the person wants to shoot highly frangible ammo where it (the bullet) may blow up in flight due to centrifugal force. You are right, that the .308 is more verstile with a "standard" rifling, but it is in no way more accurate at any distance. Even at 1000 yards, the .223 shooters are now beating the .308 shooters at their own game. That said, it takes a special gun and a special bullet. Outside your realm. I was just correcting your accuracy statement.

The idea of changing calibers in a Savage is somewhat reasonable...I know Midway now sells a do-it-at-home kit.

 

[Detritus]

First....

Although I have owned several Savages and I know their reputation for accuracy, I don't like the way the bolt feels.

that's not due to an inherent fault in the rifle, Savage isn't timing the bolt correctly from the factory.... Steve IF you still have one send it off to SSS and Let fred retime the bolt, you'll be surprised... (heck Fred just completed a XTC rifle for a guy, complete with charger guide, take a chance kidding, but he did just build a viable match rifle)


Now to the original post,

STOCKS

let's be honest here..... you've already stated you don't have the spare change to get a rem700, well then Mcmillan, HS Precision, etc all the "top of the line" (don't get me started on the "get this stock or don't bother" BS) names are gonna be out of your reach for the near future anyway..
Bell and Carlson SOUNDS good but they've had well over a year to correct a major inlett defect and haven't, and plus the FACTORY stock on a savage is a B&C (not duramax but the next step down) .

go to Sharp Shooter Supply and look around, find a stock the fits your needs, see if you;d rather have one of their triggers over an Accu-trigger (or simply GET a SSS unit if the gun you DO buy does not have an A-T)

THE REST
unless you can't find another savage heavy barrel in your area for similar of less, pass on the package gun, the scopes on those range from OK to "fecal matter"
Barrel length may not matter much to you in the end, but i would still advise at least a 24" or 26" tube at least to start with.


personally i'll tell you what I myself have planned. I plan to get either a 10FP or 12FV (most likely 12FV for less cost and extra 2" of barrel), get a sightron scope from BearBasin.com and get the gun broke in some while saving up to send it to Fred Moreo at SSS, to have him do a complete tuneup on the gun (His new style bolt handle, bolt timing reset, one of the new stocks they've got in the works thatis a near clone of the McM A5 bedded to my action by fred, the works)

 

[dakotasin]

steve-
i think your statement on the 223 vs 308 is a little misleading... while it may be true that the 223 guys are beating the 308 guys at range (i don't know - i don't run in those circles), i think that for a relative new shooter the 308 is maybe a little easier to get accuracy out of... no? yes?

i guess the argument could be made that the 223 kicks less, and barks less, making it more available to practice, therefore more accurate for newer shooters...

i don't know... i've said my pieces... i'm ducking out now!

 

[Mike Hull]

I ran across this the other day looking for something else. Maybe it'll be of use to you.
http://www.prostar.com/web/sniper/savage.htm

 

[Steve Smith]

I don't think so. Given a good bullet and barrel, I think it's every bit if not more accurate. Recoil could play a part. As you know I have the most experience with the .223 in the AR platform. In a match gun it is essentially a free floated .223 just like any other. You do have to shoot the match bullets to see that accuracy, but it is hard for them not to shoot well. Load development for <300 yards is practically nill on the AR (and I would assume a quality floated bolt gun is the same) and very little is needed for 600 yards.


I'm no expert, just giving my opinion. Unless our friend here needs to kill something nasty at 300, and doesn't feel confident of his first shot ability, I don't see why he couldn't pick the .223 for his project. It would save him a lot of cash and get him to the range a lot more. range visits, rather than postulation, make for the better rifleman.

 

[xdoctor]

Great choice with the savage! I got a model 12 about two months ago and I love it! I chose the .223 with a heavy barrel and the accutrigger. I can't say enough about that accutrigger, the thing is just cool. Its a totally diffrent feeling than anything i've ever fired. I also like that its completely adjustable.

And thanks for the links guys, i've been looking for a replacement stock, must get rid of this flimsy piece of....

 

[Tomac]

Kiesler's sells a Savage "Tactical" package you may find of interest if you don't want to go to the hassle of putting one together yourself: http://www.kieslersonline.com
Click on the link, go to "Firearms", go to Page 2, it's the 3rd item down (#SAVGTR). Rifle/scope/rings are fully assembled & boresighted, includes sling, Harris bipod, Accu-Trigger, Burris 3.5-10x50 Ballistic-Plex scope & locking hard case.
Tomac