Thinking of picking up my first precision rifle

[RevDisk]

Most of my firearms experience happens to be in the scary looking weapons people think the AWB regulates, but unfortunately have always been regulated. Mk19 auto grenade launcher, SAW, M240's, M2 .50 cal, the lovely M16/M4 family, etc. I've fired almost every major 'assault rifle' in the world. In my mind, happiness is belt fed.

'Normal' stuff I know very very little about. Bolt action rifles, normal shotguns, and such. But hey, I'm of course very willing to learn.

On my last deployment, I had a lot of time to ponder what weapons to pick up when I got back. I wanted one weapon of every type. A handgun, a shotgun, a 'happy gun' (assault rifle, battle rifle, whatever) and a precision rifle. I decided on a Colt M1911, a Mossberg 500 and an AK47. Based on my experiences, I prefer AK47's over the M16. Mostly because of 7.62 vs 5.56. Still, I was at odds on what precision rifle to pick up. My only real experience has been with the M82A1 Berrett .50 and the Finnish rifle that is very loosely based off the Mosin Nagent. I fired a couple rounds through other rifles, but not enough to be completely used to them.

I talked to a grizzled old SF guy and asked for his advice. He kinda just chuckled and told me to go for a Savage 10, don't skimp whatsoever on the scope. .308 or .300 WSM

I got back, bought my Colt, my Mossberg and my AK. Still was looking for a decent precision rifle. Everything was either too expensive or not what I was looking for. Until I looked up the Savage 10 and it seemed like everything I was looking for. Gee, maybe I should have just listened to my buddy. (Duh)


Does anyone have a better suggestion for a quality but not overly expensive rifle? If not, what is AccuTrigger and is it worth the extra cash? Also, suggestions on a rather good scope? For the scope, I'd prefer to pay a max of $300-500 that could still do elevation and windage adjustments fairly quickly. Overall I prefer to spend a max of $1500. If need be, I can buy more expensive components down the line.

Basically, I'd like a minimum of 2 inch groupings at 300m. Anything better than that is gravy. I know with practice my shot groups will pull tigher and I intend to spend a decent amount of time practicing.

Again, I'm rather new to the bolt action world so I appreciate all thoughts on the subjects.

 

[BusMaster007]

When I first looked into a bolt-action rifle, I should've gotten what I wanted right away instead of looking for the advice of the experts at work, which cost me 2 years of waiting and a lot of confusion!

What I was looking at was the test rifle in a Guns&Weapons For Law Enforcement magazine:

Savage 110 with a Weaver V-16 scope in Weaver rings (extended front, I think).
It was a blind magazine, heavy 24" bbl. .308 Win. bolt-action rifle that would've put me behind the scope and got me started for a reasonable price.

That combination was accurate and reliable.
It's what I'd recommend in your situation.

Main thing is don't wait! Get the rifle and get out there with it.
Good Luck!

P.S., thanks for your service to our Country.

edited to add: I ended up getting a Remington 700 Police in .308 eventually!

 

[RRTX]

The new Savage's with the Accutrigger are pretty nice and shoot very well out of the box. You can pick up a 10FP which already has a heavy full floated barrel for around 500 bucks, then you could invest in a nice scope. Then there is the Remington 700 PSS or LTR, I would choose one of these 2 if you plan on having any custom work done in the future. The LTR has a shorter, fluted barrel for some weight savings and both can be had for ~$700. All of these rifles are perfectly capable of the accuracy you want

 

[Jick42]

Well, for a starter rifle i dont think you will have to look any further than a Remington 700 or Savage 10.
(Remington) VS-.308 $550-600, PSS .308 $700-800, LTR .308 $700-800
Just for a personal recommendation out of these Remingtons, i would definately recommend the VS. Same rifle as teh PSS, just different stock. And of course the LTR is a light fluted Rifle. But i would definately go the VS.

(Savage) You have your 10fps. The Accu-Trigger is very nice, completely adjustable to suit your liking in trigger pull. Here your looking at $500-800. The $800 one comes with a McMillian Stock, Which is very nice. So Any of these are a good choice for starte rifles.

And as i recommend to everyone for scopes. www.swfa.com is the best place to shop online for scopes. Great deals. The Weaver-16 Would be a good scope ontop of any of these rigs, the new Tasco Super Sniper would be Excellent. SWFA got the rights to these scopes and are now a superb scope for $299-399. The Nikon Monarchs you can get for about $400. But i would recommend the Tasco Super Sniper, they are the best value for your money. Oh almost forgot, Bushnell has the 10M, which is a straight 10 power scope, for 189.00. This scope has Mil-Dot reticles and is also very good glass for the money.

That should get you started pretty well, spare no expense on your rings and bases though.

 

[DonNikmare]

Jick42

What about the VS stock makes it better than the PSS?

I handled the PSS at a store and the stock seemed to fill out my hand pretty well which I liked but I have no experience with either the PSS or the VS and that's the reason I'm asking.

RevDisk
I'm also looking for a precision type rifle and the Rem 700 PSS seems to be the best choice to me for a bolt action at this point - very accurate, been around for a while and so there are a lot of kits, mods, etc. available for it.

Thank you for your service and good look in the search.

Which AK (chinise, romanian, russian, etc.) did you end up getting?

Nik

 

[RevDisk]

Don, I went with an Romanian SAR-1. I'm familiar with several of the 'real' AK47's and their derivatives. I've fired Soviet, Yugoslav, Romanian, Bulgarian, and Finnish. The Swedes have something called the AK5, chambered in 5.56 NATO. Lighest recoil of any assault rifle I've ever fired.

My favorite was the Finnish. On full auto, I could put 30 out of 30 rounds within a target the size of a coffee can at 25m. (This is harder than you think on a normal AK.) On semi, I had three shot groups at 50m that could be covered with a nickel. Beautiful, beautiful weapon. Sako only made a limited production for the Finnish military, absolutely no exports of the full auto. None were produced in semi only as far as I know.

Outside of the Finnish, the others were about the same. If one was shooting competition you could nitpick, but for a grunt like me, they were very similiar.

Based on suggestion, I'm going to look at the Rem 700 PSS and the Savage 10FPXP-LEA. .308 of course. Basically, whichever I can find a better price on.

 

[Tomac]

Since you like the military-style rifles I have a couple of suggestions:
The new SSG-97 in .308 from InterOrdnance for $750 w/8x scope. An AK on steroids, just drop in a Red Star Arms adjustable trigger group and you're good to go w/match ammo (however, it's new and I haven't seen any test reports on it's accuracy yet).
My personal favorite: NDM-86 Dragunov in .308. Yeah, it's a bit more than you wanted to spend ($1,700) but it's rugged, reliable (strips/maintains almost as easy as an AK), the only military rifle I know of designed from the ground up as a sniper rifle and is capable of surprising accuracy: With a cheap Russian 8x scope, my average shooting skills & 168gr match ammo my best 3-shot ctc group at 100yds is .24", my best 4-shot ctc group at 100yds is .44" and I can shoot 4.5" groups at 500m.
IMHO there's nothing wrong with a good bolt gun except that it's not a Dragunov!...
Tomac

 

[Steve Smith]

Wow Tomac, that's pretty impressive. Kinda funny too...it reminds me of those "street racers" you see. One guy says, "that car's pretty fast!" the other says, "yeah, too bad it's still a Dodge Neon."


I'm ribbin ya...sounds like a good rifle.

 

[Tomac]

If I'm going racing I'd rather have a fast Neon than a slow 'vette!
Honestly, though, I'm still in awe at what the .308 Drag can do in the accuracy dept. I'm trying to get one of the more experienced LRTR shooters at my local range to try it out and see what it's capable of in skilled hands. It may be ugly but this dog can hunt!
Tomac

 

[Jick42]

DonNikmare,

I wasn't saying the VS stock was better than the PSS. The PSS has the better stock. I was simply recommending the VS, because theres not that much difference, and he should be able to pick up a VS for a couple hundred bucks less. Figured if it was hish FIRST precision rifle, the VS would serve him very well. I have a Remington 700 Sendero, in 300WM. Sendero, is the same as the VS in comparison to the PSS. And i have shot 1/4 MOA with it. So they are Very accurate guns. That was with Black Hills 190gr. Any of them will do very good though. Just laying out all the options he has. Good day.

 

[RevDisk]

My understanding is that the SSG-97 is a RPK light machine gun receiver with a longer barrel. (RPK already has a heavy barrel). Over there, we used to call the RPK a "ghetto SAW". Not a bad weapon and it is fairly accurate for a light machine gun, considering it's mostly just an AK47 with a heavy barrel. I'm not ruling out your suggestion, I'm just pondering how decent it would be. Turning a machine gun into a precision rifle, that is.

Keep in mind, Persian Mausers are being used as 'sniper rifles' by insurgents for a long time now. Cheap and effective, unfortunately. 8mm makes a big hole too. Click on CNN or Fox to see their effectiveness.


ChiCom Dragunov's are pretty decent. I liked the Russian one I fired. I figure the ChiCom's copied the design millimeter by millimeter, so it'd probably be as good as a SVD. If I had the cash, I'd definitely go for one. I'm gonna go with a cheap rifle and expensive 'accessories' for the moment. I figure the rifle is probably going to be more accurate than the user at this stage, tis why I'm gonna go hogwild on the scope.

 

[Wildalaska]

Get a swedish M41B...low recoil and heres how it shoots...

Thats .175 center to center..

Gotmore class than a Savage or some cheesy combloc wannabe


WildcrufflerAlaska

 

[spacemanspiff]

what makes WA's group even more impressive is that he had brought SWMBO along to give him a quick shoulder massage between shots.

 

[artherd]

Remington 700PSS. Spend 2x the cost of the rifle on glass. Nightforce, high-end Leupold, Shepherd, US OPTICS, etc.

 

[dbshabo]

I bought the Savage 10FP-LE2B last fall. I was torn between the Savage, Remmy 700, or the CZ 550 Laminated, all in .308 Win. I bought the Savage for the AccuTrigger (really sweet trigger for sure), price, and accuracy rep. The Savage has 1:10 rifling vs the 1:12 of the Remmy allowing for heavier bullets if you so choose. I was told that button rifling (Savage) is more accurate than hammer forged (Remmy). Can't confirm this to be true or not. I like the fact that I can get a bbl wrench for the Savage and change out a barrel myself. With a new bolt face I can even change the caliber with a different barrel. The McMillan stock that came on the rifle fits me very well and is rock solid. With match grade ammo I can get MOA outta her no problem, and that's with a bipod and fist for support (no rear bag).

From what I gathered from the boards I questioned if you want an accurate outta the box bolt gun for a reasonable price go with the Savage. If you intend to put a lot of aftermarket stuff and $$ into the rifle in the future to squeeze out that extra .002458974" of accuracy then get the Remmy 700 model as there is a lot more aftermarket stuff available for it. Be aware that the PSS model has the same action as all the other 700 models. The exta $$ for the PSS is in the stock.

I think the CZ 550 Laminated would also be a good choice. The price is in the same range as the Savage. I wan't able to find much info or opinions on this rifle. You may have more luck. I'll bet it's a good weapon though.

Shabo

 

[Sykokinesis]

Tikka T3 or the CZ 550 American Safari Mag. .458 Win.Mag. *oooo-big-hole*
T3
CZ

Zeiss - Diavari V 6-24x56 T. German...`nough said...
Zeiss

Harris Bipod
Harris

My personal fav.
Trumark SS - Tournament
Trumark SS

-j

 

[RevDisk]

In the end, it came down to going to the gun store, holding the gun and KNOWING it was the one for me. A beautiful Tikka T3. Currently has a so so Bushnell scope on it. I'll try it for a bit and see how she runs.

Will post photos!

 

[Jick42]

Congrats on the rifle REV. Look forward to seeing pics. In the end, all that matters is if you like the rifle. Once again, congrats on your purchase

 

[DonNikmare]

Congratulations and have fun shooting it!

What caliber and model and how much $?

Nik

 

[RevDisk]

Tikka Lite Stainless, chambered in .308. M595, ran me $700 with the Harris bipod, spare magazine, muzzle break and a Bushnell Sportview scope. Each magazine holds three rounds.

Definitely need another scope. I'll take my time.

 

[DonNikmare]

Very nice rifle! The mb is a nice touch. I like their tactical model with the adjustable stock but it is too much $, for now anyway.

Let us know how it shoots if you get the time.

Nik

 

[RevDisk]

Finally got to fire, beautiful day for it too. Very bright sky, but not too warm. Bit more wind than I would have liked. All I used was the bipod, didn't bring a mat or any sandbags. I shot from the prone position on trimmed grass.

With the scope dialed in to 100m, the above was the first zero'd shots. I pulled two shots, but the other four were a decent cluster. With a better scope and more practice, I think I can pull the group in tighter.

I'm also thinking of asking one of my buddies to watch my shooting to make sure my trigger pull, breathing, etc are not slipping up.

Comments, suggestions on improving?
Also, what is a 'normal' bench rig? I assume sandbags or whatnot. Anything else?

 

[atek3]

If you want 5 round mags, call http://www.mtguns.com
Mac Tilton is a good guy. Beautiful rifle btw. I have a M595 master sporter rebarreled with a 1-8 twist 223 barrel, tikka's rock.

atek3