Tightgroup >> Dirty ???

[renaissance]

I load a lot of .45 acp & 9 mm.

I go for light target loads.
My favorite Powder is CLAYS (Straight Clays mind you)
Although it is most often NOT listed as a prefered powder suggestion for either 9 OR 45 acp, I have found it to be excellent for my means.
A Soft "push" - good accuracy - and VERY VERY Clean!

3.7 CLAYS under a 230 Hard coast lead for 45 acp
3.5 CLAYS under a 125 FMJ for 9 mm

Every once in a while I get feeling a little "out of step" when CLYS gets ignored by this load manual or that for 9 and 45.

I have been experimenting with Titegroup (out of "Guilt" ?)
4.2 under a 230 Hard cast lead
4.5 under the 125 fmj 9mm

I find it to be VERY DIRTY compared to CLAYS.
Not so much unburnt powder,
but > big > ugly > messy > soft smeary flakes on the tray
in font of me (on the indoor firing line)
On my face
On my clothes
On the Towel on the side
EVERYWHERE!

I DO taper Crimp what I think is the proper amount.
Enough to take out all the flare, and fit the check gauge
But not enough to put a "ring" around a seated-crimped-and then pulled bullet.

Aany one out there have similar experiences?
What (if anything) might I be doing wrong ?
(( except yielding to common accepted pressure instead of following my instincts and experience))

 

[Zak Smith]

I also load Titegroup in 9mm and .45ACP. A couple of my friends recommended it because it is very cheap ($12.50/lb out the door locally). Since Titegroup is a slower powder than Clays, it is easier/safer to make "major" with Titegroup. According to Hodgdon's data, Clays can't make "major" in .45ACP with less than a 230gr bullet (jacketed data, not cast. ( http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/45acp.php )

In any case, I've found that it does leave the inside of fired cases black, and there is the tell-tale black "stain" on one outside side of fired cases. I haven't noticed any unburned "flakes". The inside of the gun does not seem to accumulate lots of junk, though it does seem to get "frosted" over with a thin layer of black stuff. During loading itself, the powder doesn't seem to be any more "messy" than any other.

Here are the Titegroup loads I'm using:
.45ACP 200gr West-Coast plated RN, 4.7gr Titegroup, 1.250" - good for plinking, about 150PF.

.45ACP 200gr West-Coast plated RN, 5.1gr Titegroup, 1.250" - about 166PF.

9x19mm 124gr West-Coast plated RN, 4.0gr Titegroup, 1.130" - about 131PF.

If you want a clean powder that's slower than TG or Clays, I would suggest VV-N320. I've used it extensively in 9mm and MarkCO posted that it's his favorite IPSC powder in .45ACP. In 9mm, the fired cases are still shiny inside after firing, and the pistol does not get dirty at all! It is much more expensive at about $23/lb.

On the other hand, I have a friend who swears by Clays in .45ACP for the reasons you mentioned.

-z

 

[griz]

I've always thought Titegroup was fairly clean. I have used it mostly in 38 and 45, only a little in 9mm. I've never used Clays at all so maybe it just looks OK compared to Bullseye, 700X, and the like.

 

[jjmorgan64]

I use it in my 38's. accuracy and consistency are very good, but after about 50 rounds my nickel cylinder is a nicy smokey color, which turns a nice dark grey before i'm done. The whole cylinder, it's kind of funny. Seems to be fairly clean over the rest of the gun.

 

[caz223]

It depends on the application and the load.
For instance, I tried blue dot in light .45 colt loads, in a 3 1/2" birdshead gun.
Dirtiest powder I ever tried.
That gun would be black after 3 cylinders full.
Blue dot flakes would pour out of the fired brass.
I tried blue dot for 357SIG, using less powder and a much lighter bullet, no flakes, inside of brass looks like it was just tumbled.
A lot more pressure.

 

[Reloader]

It's a lot cleaner than Herco or Unique and more uniform and accurate.

 

[MoNsTeR]

I used Titegroup first, then tried Clays.
Haven't used much Titegroup lately.
Clays is one of THE best powders for light target loads, if that's what you want then I'd stick with it.

 

[coorsleftfield]

I had the same experience with tightgroup. I was trying to load up a light target load for action pistol matches. Basically a 125 PF load with a 200gr 45ACP bullet.

I was loading 3.5 clays, and it was very clean.. At the last match I loaded 4.2 titegroup, because everyone raved about how good titegroup was.

Well I found it was very dirty, so dirty that after shooting several moon clips, it grimed up my cylinders on the revolver so bad that I could no longer insert the moon clips to where the cylinder would close and I had to go back to my car and clean it. As far as I can tell, titegroup is only clean at close to max loads..

 

[E357]

renaissance,
Your loads and results are exactly them same as mine. I just don't understand people who claim that titegroup is a clean powder. The powder meters well - a lot better than Clays in small amounts, and is pretty accurate, but I find HP-38 and Clays a better combo. When I need to throw weights under 3.0 grains I don't trust Clays to meter well. I would not use Clays for Magnum loads - the pressure spike is too extreme.

I just started playing with VV-320 and 310. They both look very promising and very clean.

Elliot