Quantcast

Time to go on offense to take care of this mass shooting problem

Discussion in 'Activism' started by abajaj11, Feb 21, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    22,657
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    Just like bullet-proof cockpit doors, how about using bullet-proof classroom doors with gun ports (only open from inside)?

    This will at least provide teachers/children means of immediate escape/protection until armed teachers can engage the shooter.
     
  2. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,830
    Location:
    Tampa Bay area
    George P likes this.
  3. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    22,657
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    Yes, we know that about city police and county sheriff deputies.

    But law enforcement officers HIRED SPECIFICALLY TO PROTECT SCHOOL CHILDREN from active shooters HAVE DUTY TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN.
     
  4. George P

    George P Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    4,136
    The further away you from a disaster, the larger the number of people killed needed to make you care and read the story.200 folks at once in a plane crash seems more horrific than 50,000 killed 1 by 1 in auto crashes as an example.

    Remember the mantra of any media outlet - if it bleeds, it leads........
     
  5. George P

    George P Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    4,136
    That is putting a bandaid on a severed artery. Until the CAUSE is addressed, nothing changes. Instead of a gun, they make a bomb or use poison or any number of things, directions readily available on the Internet.

    Hmmmm maybe we should sue Al for inventing the internet, Apple for inventing the smart phone, and the liberal media for over-sensationalizing everything???
     
  6. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    10,519
    Location:
    Forestburg, Texas
    You do realize that it took the better part of a century to get pilots armed and even then not all airlines allow for armed pilots. Before 9/11, it had been over 7 years since the last hijacking and that was a non-passenger Fedex flight where an employee attempted the hijacking. Prior to that, the last American passenger flight hijacking was 1987. It wasn't until well into 2003 that pilots were legally allowed to be armed.

    I don't know that arming pilots has stopped hijackings. Fortifying the cockpits so that they cannot be breached probably has done more than arming pilots (early 2002). Remember, the barriers and locked doors came first and we haven't had any successful hijackings once they were in place. Then came some airlines allowing some pilots to be armed.
     
  7. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    22,657
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    I have a feeling images of screaming dying school children will tug at the hearts of law makers in Washington much harder.

    I agree.

    But the pressure to "DO SOMETHING" will resonate and hardening/bullet-proofing classroom doors can be done. But schools are not like airplanes and active shooters are not interested in taking over the principal's office - killing children is the objective.

    And simply bullet-proofing classroom doors won't stop killing of children outside the classrooms.

    We would need something more to stop the shooters and that's where armed teachers come in - First and last line of defense to protect the children.

    This may become the new normal where job description for school teacher includes firearms training.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  8. george burns

    george burns Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,841
    That's not true at all, Most teachers are going to panic and as a long time competitive shooter I don't agree with you, I would rather they put real guards who do just this for a living, than multi task teachers into gunfighters. I would like to see a simulation of what might occur if people who trained a few times were confronted by a shooter, and had to pick out the shooter from the kids, while making sure their bullets went where they were supposed to. My wife shoots, so where you get that from is ridiculous, this is not about carrying gun, it's about skill levels. And if teachers were going to train with professional trainers twice a month, it might work, but just like every other government program, it won't happen. Just put Vets, ex military shooters who have the skillset to be able to pull this off. If someone is middle age and doesn't carry or shoot a gun ever, this is not for them.
     
  9. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    22,657
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    The armed "protector" of the school stayed outside while children were being killed - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/2...who-never-went-in-during-shooting-report.html

    In my opinion, armed teachers getting shot at are more likely to return fire to protect their lives and lives of children, of course with proper training and certification.
     
  10. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    22,657
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    What would you suggest then? Just watch more children die?

    Hardening classroom doors and arming teachers voluntarily is response to specific threat of active shooters that can be accomplished.

    If/when bombs/poisons are used, then there can be additional responses but that threat has not happened widely or recently.
     
  11. George P

    George P Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    4,136
    I would rather be proactive than reactive. Neighborhood watches, for example are proactive; police response afterwards is reactive.

    As to WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING hysterics, doing things based on hysterical emotions is never a good idea

    As for watching kids die, more teens are killed while texting and driving, drinking and driving, doing illegal drugs, suicides, and a myriad of other things than by school shootings.
     
    LiveLife and Polar Express like this.
  12. Polar Express

    Polar Express Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2009
    Messages:
    312
    Location:
    Soviet of Washington
    Absolutely! Personally, I've been an advocate of this for years.
    1) they get their tools of choice, 100% paid for (firearm, 2 holsters, magazines, 2 belts)
    2) they get REAL training. Cops take their issued box of practice ammo (or whatever their dept has decided they get) to a target range. Target ranges have huge limitations. The training needs to be in dynamic situations. Soldiers (in general) are taught how to function in groups, and in a war environment. Proposed teacher training needs to be catered to the environments they are in.
    3) the condition is that they carry it ON THEIR PERSON, no bags, purses, desk drawers or briefcases. ON THEIR PERSON, open or concealed, I don't care.
    4) Teachers and admin get OT pay for the classes, and the ongoing refresher training.

    Also:
    Offer the Military Reserve folks the option to serve their 2-days/month by serving at a local school, create a hard schedule. They also get situational specific training. 1 soldier present, and armed, and with communication device per 1,000 students.

    I will cut a check for $500 right now to fund my portion of this proposal at my local school district, and I promise you it won't come to $500 per household to fund this proposal.

    PE
     
    DoubleMag and LiveLife like this.
  13. George P

    George P Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    4,136
    (rant on)Personally, I'd rather we close the public schools entirely, take ALL of that money and invest it in doing a better job of educating kids. Home school, church/religious groups, on-line education - all are available for a LOT less, and typically deliver a better result. No wasted money on asinine bureaucracies and administration, no huge sums wasted on government unfunded mandates, no buildings and grounds to maintain, no socialistic indoctrination, and no need for kids to attend classes in a building where most are already designed like a prison (and folks want to make them even more so). We have one of the least educated societies in our youth than most first-world nations. The entire system is a waste of money an no amount will fix it, or stop a determined kid from causing harm to others when they masses together like sardines in a can. (rant off)
     
  14. Jack B.

    Jack B. Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2017
    Messages:
    1,704
    Location:
    Cocoa
    Support the NRA if you want to do something.
     
    P5 Guy likes this.
  15. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    22,657
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    +1. Our daughter switched from public High School to online school and she was happier, graduated from High School 6 months early without bullying or teenager drama.

    Best part? K-12 "public school" program was free to us. They simply took money that previously went to public school - http://www.k12.com/

    And no, only shooting she was exposed to was the range sessions I took her to.
     
  16. george burns

    george burns Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,841
    The idea of reservists in schools is one of the better ideas. You were right about that cop who just sat outside, many people who have good intentions can't unfreeze themselves when something like this happens. That's what I fear, you need top operators to be able to pick out a bad guy in a split second and hit just him. My fear is that a kid get's shot by someone we put there to protect them and the entire program gets shut down the next day. All of this comes down to money. Just to put in steel doors that take too long to gain access to for a shooter to try and open, is a good idea, but when you multiply the amount of doors, meta detector and whatever else is decided may work, then you have to get the legislators to provide the money to implement the changes. Forget what they are saying this week, if the doors for 1 school are a million dollars and we have hundreds of schools, are they going to approve it? That goes for everything, this is running on emotion right now, but are the funds available to do these things, Or is it just a bone, to arm a few teachers in the school, because it's the least expensive way to go? People are funny when it comes to actually spending their money, I see people who own homes , "nice homes" and have alarm systems who are too cheap to pay for the monitoring charge until they get robbed. At this point I just hope they do something, because my grand daughter was in that school for 8 hours and then de briefed by the FBI for another 3. and she almost ran right into the shooter, but an adult stopped her. So I am all for doing something, but it has to be well thought out and not just a band aid. And I understand what happens when shots are fired, and it's really hard to train for that unless it's happened to you. Teaching someone what to do, and having the actually do it while under fire are quite different. Tunnel vision, hearing loss, breath control, all the things that the body does to protect itself must be overcome.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  17. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    3,480
    Location:
    Iowa
    And all were public sector/government related.

    More government control is not the solution.
     
    George P likes this.
  18. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    22,657
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    Good post.

    You know, life happens ... that's life.

    But it's how we choose to respond to what happens in life is what DEFINES us.

    Perhaps it's time for all of us to put down our political differences and DO SOMETHING TOGETHER productive and worthwhile to protect our children.

    In the recent school shooting, hardened/bullet-proof doors may not have saved lives but trained and armed teachers may have as the paid "protector" failed to take down the shooter and just stood outside the school during the shooting.

    So looks like paid "protector" option won't ensure the safety of children.

    What other options do we have to ensure the safety of our children?

    Yes, cost is a factor but voluntary grant/rebate programs for gun purchase/training for teachers can start next week and can be subsidized or fully paid even to include public donations like fund me, telethons/national fundraisers etc.

    Are we back to arming the teachers or are there more viable "immediate" cost-effective solutions?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  19. danez71

    danez71 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,589
    Location:
    CAAZ;TX?
    But some teachers turned out to be heros. Why handy cap this teachers by taking away the option?

    Why do you portray this as an either or?

    No one has said teachers need to be gunfighters.

    No one has said it should be mandatory for teachers.

    Make it an option for teacher just as it's an option for you and me.
     
    Polar Express and milemaker13 like this.
  20. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    3,480
    Location:
    Iowa
    A good first step that costs nothing is to remove the restrictions on the 2nd amendment. Teachers, parents, coaches should be able to carry in school if they choose.
     
  21. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    22,657
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    If I was a teacher, I certainly would welcome the option of carrying a firearm for self-protection in lieu of being killed.

    Will or can I shoot to protect children? I may not but when the shooting starts and children starts getting killed and adrenaline rushes, things may change and I may overcome my fears to shoot to protect my life and lives of children.
     
    DoubleMag, Polar Express and danez71 like this.
  22. George P

    George P Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    4,136
    I have been a teacher - elementary - while most of the teachers I worked with were actually more Republican/Conservative leaning NONE of them owned a gun (they all knew I did) - they weren't against them, they just didn't feel the need to own one themselves. These were in two different mostly conservatives areas of two states. I seriously doubt you'll get many volunteers in huge liberal areas. They WANT something done (libs), they just want someone else to do it and take responsibility for the action.
     
  23. George P

    George P Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    4,136
    Here's a simple inexpensive method:

    slide-justinkase-white-door.jpg

    http://dominatesafety.com/

    Invented by a high school kid

    Video at the site is 35 seconds long

    Hope this kid make millions
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  24. RPZ

    RPZ Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,204
    So you're saying it's no good having peace officers in schools either, since they are not "sniper quality".

    You are not required to reach that mark for any of these, nor concealed license holders who could equally find themselves defending their own life, or third parties in a crowded place.

    There are basically three responses to gunshots; run like hell away from the source being one, panic and freeze - cower and hide. A few, very few might fight, even if the odds are against them.

    In such an environment there are going to be opportunities where a badguy is in relative isolation. Minimizing casualties is the goal, and the second an identifiable badguy is in view and relatively clear of anyone else ...bang bang bang...

    It really is that simple, and that is exactly where any peace officer present, private contractor, or good guy with a gun will be.
     
  25. danez71

    danez71 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,589
    Location:
    CAAZ;TX?

    This is, imo, a very honest self evaluating reply.

    Thank you
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice