To modify or leave it to the "Professionals"

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Nuke8401

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I find it interesting that there is such a wide difference of opinion on weather firearm modifications by untrained people, me, are a good idea or not. By modifications I don’t mean clamping a gizmo on a rail. By modification I mean changes, modifications, building the internals of a firearm.

I personally cannot own a firearm without making some modifications. My experience and mistakes have lead me to believe that gunsmithing is not rocket science. My threshold is stopping when the cost to repair my attempt is prohibitive; 1-2 dollars worth of springs for an AR trigger/hammer are OK for me personally.

I guess it depends on your mechanical abilities and experiences. I took my first lawnmower engine apart at about 8 yrs old, :cuss:Dad not happy. On one end of the spectrum, I have repaired nuclear power plants/equipment; where strict procedures are used, all changes require painful engineering evaluations, qualification, and QA. On the other end of the spectrum I have resurfaced a warped big block Chevy exhaust manifold on a cement floor to make it across country in an RV. So knowing what’s good enough and what isn't is the key. All the weapons I use in competition are modified by me and are reliable, meaning thousands of rounds down range.

So I say give it your best shot! Grind, beat and bang on them! Just consider weather or not your life will depend on the results:uhoh:.

I tend to think younger people are less likely to “modify” but us old “farm boy” era guys are used to fixing everything.

What do you guys think?

By the way, the only thing I do to my carry guns is change sights.
 
I would tend to agree with you but the problem is that far too many guys think they have the necessary skills when they really don't. When talking about firearms this can quickly become a dangerous situation for some people as well as people standing next to them on a range. Having said that I do believe that if a person knows what they're doing and understands the possible consequences and liability concerns then they should be free to modify their personal weapons.
 
I've worked on guns for many years, but I am not a gunsmith. The important thing is I know what is beyound what I can do.

It cracks me up when people buy a gun then detail strip it, for no good reason at all, then they can't get it back together.:D
 
I've had the best luck putting my money into old guns that work just the way they are, rather than buying new ones which don't. If it won't do the job out of the box, don't buy it.
 
I would think most professional gunsmiths started out by tinkering with their own guns and perhaps their friend's; I know I did.

Some mods (new sights, grips, etc.) are no-brainers and a good place to start.

For the next step (cutting a dovetail, throat & polish) some care is needed to avoid messing up a nice gun but no real risk to life and limb is entailed.

There's also nothing wrong with dropping by your LGS and asking their 'smith for some advice; bringing a six-pack is not a bad idea.
 
If you can do it, and really know what you're doing, then fine.

The problem comes when people mess with triggers, sears, etc. and have no idea what they are doing, and try to rely on internet instructions and guesswork. And god forbid, when they screw up their guns, they sell them to some unsuspecting person who doesn't realize that the gun is messed up.
 
Originally posted by M2 Carbine
I've worked on guns for many years, but I am not a gunsmith. The important thing is I know what is beyound what I can do.

It cracks me up when people buy a gun then detail strip it, for no good reason at all, then they can't get it back together.

I've had trouble with reassembly. Ever tried assembling an M1 carbine bolt *without* the tool using a diagram on the web and text instructions? All the parts are spring-loaded, need to be held at specific depths, and occur on both sides of the bolt. And if something slips out of your hand tiny parts can go flying 15-20ft to hide under furniture.

Much cursing was done before I built a tool out of a c-clamp and some gasket to hold pieces in tight at the appropriate depths. And I emerged victorious, a man!

...I can see why the bastard of a former owner sold the rifle rather than take down the bolt to clean up the clogged extractor.

I won't own a weapon I can't disassemble and reassemble, and I'm progressing from drop-in parts to minor fitting. I still leave stuff like my 1911 night sight installation to the pros, though. You just need to accept that, in the process of learning, you're going to screw up a couple guns. That's the price of admission, but in the long run you learn a lot and probably save quite a bit of money.
 
I would like to say I have disassembled all my guns buuuuttttt, not my S&W CS-45, a favorite carry gun of mine. I here they (S&W autos) are a bear to assemble. On the other hand I hesitated to completely disassemble my Glock 34 the first time and once I had it apart, no big deal.

At my last IDPA match, first stage, click, click, click. I installed the firing pin block safety (1911) pieces parts wrong the last time I had it fully apart. The good? I was able to disassemble, fix, reassemble, using a borrowed hammer, a spring from a clothes clip (target holder) and shoot the stage before my squad moved to the next stage.

So I think knowledge of your guns internal workings can truly be a “lifesaver”

Rule #?????: Always test fire before you really need it after messing with it!!!

Now I'm thinking about taken that CS-45 apart when I get home? Should I?
 
Good post.

I really think that in order to "get to know" your guns you should take them apart and put them back together a time or two.

The only modifications I have done to my carry guns are cosmetic really...I polished the barrel and guide rod of my XD45C... messed with the engravings on my XD9SC and put some custom grips on my CZ82. Besides that I mainly only care about getting a good belt and modifying my crossbreed supertucks to fit my guns the best.

As far as other firearms go I haven't gotten into messing with many shotguns but I did go ahead and do a full conversion to a Saiga 7.62x39. I am not really mechanically inclined so I was surprised how much I enjoyed doing it. It took me several nights and some extra drill bits but it was a fun experience.

I don't really consider myself much of a "gunsmith" but I can tell people that I took a 5 shot sporting rifle and turned it into a Russian AKM. Drilling, dremeling, grinding, gluing, smashing, sawing, and various other actions were taken in the conversion so I guess I know that carbine inside and out now:D

~Norinco
 
I don't mess with my handgun at all as they came from the factory like I like 'em(I have changed some grip panels though). On the other hand, I never stop working on my hunting rifles(mostly Mauser 98 mil-surps).
 
I really think that in order to "get to know" your guns you should take them apart and put them back together a time or two.

For someone like me that is easier said then done! I have a revolver (Charter Arms. .357 Bulldog) that I want to refinish, but I fear that total disassemble so I can soak the gun in a vinegar/salt solution will bring it to the point where I cannot get it back together again.

I clean and field dress all of my guns, but have never completely taken one down except for my 10/22....
 
from OP :
I tend to think younger people are less likely to “modify” but us old “farm boy” era guys are used to fixing everything.

I see that all the time. Repairing rather than tossing out was taught by parents who lived thru the 30' & 40's. Farm kids know common sense repair better than most - for sure, for sure.
 
The technical term is "tinkering" :)

but us old “farm boy” era guys are used to fixing everything.

I think it has more to do with parental indulgence and to much t.v. .... and farmers are probably not known for either (at least my uncle and grandfather weren't).

I was a product of the burbs and dad made his money pushing a pencil and wearing out tires as a sales guy.... but I got my fair share of that "farmer frugality".

Us kids got clothes for school, a modest and practical present on our birthday and perhaps two @ Christmas, and for these we were appreciative. But that was it. Anything else we wanted we had to either make or get a job, save for it and buy it with our own money.

We didn't buy toy guns, we made them (piece of garden hose and a block of wood)...

After buying the neighbor kids broken down go-cart and a Briggs and Stratten repair manual, the first thing I did was to completely disassemble the engine, just to see how it worked. Needless to say, I have been a incurable tinkerer ever since.

I can't get over how people I know plop down hundreds of dollars for Chuck-E-Cheese birthday parties and video games.... along with satelite dishes with hundreds of t.v. channels. Then they wonder why their overweight couch potatoe kids turn into sassy little brats that can't do anything for themselves.

With only three channels on the rabbit ears and only so many Hogans Heroes and Three Stooges re-runs to watch, us kids were driven outside or to the garage for the cure to boredom.

Though I did get the go-kart running, I never did realize my ambition to put a 440 cc snowmobile engine on it. Instead, I moved on to dirt bikes :D

Half the fun of firearms for me is tinkering (built a muzzle loader and an AR, converted Saiga, replace grips, finish stocks, mount scopes and peeps, trigger jobs, etc...) and reloading. ;)

I really want to get into 1911 tinkering... but my wallet can't support it at this time.

The sad thing is that all my kids have time to do is homework... and it's ridiculous how much of it they get.
 
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I'll do some easy stuff like free-floating a barrel, or bedding an action, I've even improved the trigger pull on my Mosin, but somethings, like a trigger job on my SIG, are beyond my skill/tool set.
 
My modus operandi was to play with my Christmas toys until approximately New Years day, and then take them apart and see what made them tick. I even got some of them back together and working - occasionally.

Now, I do primarily appliance repair for a living, and wouldn't dream of taking anything in for repair unless I'd had a crack at it first. This includes my guns. Right now I'm buying a pair of ARs one part at time, and then assembly. Of course I'll probably pay someone else to test fire them the first time, but I'll have built them. :D
 
The one thing I learned living on the farm is simply 'if it ain't broke don't fix it, if it is broke make sure you are able to fix it. If you aren't able leave to someone that is."

Good adage to live by. However, not being ABLE meant being incapacitated to us (although where I'm from, lacking mechanical aptitude is a justifiablel handicap). :)

BTW, I lived 13 years in South Bend.
 
I've had trouble with reassembly. Ever tried assembling an M1 carbine bolt *without* the tool using a diagram on the web and text instructions? All the parts are spring-loaded, need to be held at specific depths, and occur on both sides of the bolt. And if something slips out of your hand tiny parts can go flying 15-20ft to hide under furniture
Yes I have.:D

That's one reason I'm reluctant to tell someone how to take down or try to repair some gun problems.

Some time back I had a THR or Glock Talk member just send me his M1 Carbine bolt, to replace a broken extractor, rather than have him mess it up.
 
The one thing I learned living on the farm is simply 'if it ain't broke don't fix it, if it is broke make sure you are able to fix it. If you aren't able leave to someone that is."

This little gem would apply to firearms as well as it would heavy machinery.
Except how do you know you can't fix it until you try?

I've done numerous repairs (on all sorts of stuff, including a plasma TV!) that I was not sure of until I got inside and realized it wasn't as complicated as I had feared.

Dare to be great!
 
mcdonl, you don't know what real fun is until you try to reassemble the cylinder release mechanism on a Charter. Sadomasochism and bondage don't even begin to compare. You'll need at least three and a half hands and your tongue. Make sure to get the women and children out of the shop. Bite down on a piece of leather. I still work on mine but I don't look forward to it. I still love that little Pug though.
 
I've done numerous repairs (on all sorts of stuff, including a plasma TV!) that I was not sure of until I got inside and realized it wasn't as complicated as I had feared.

And I've been involved in repairs where we've had a drive shaft of one sort or another driven halfway out of the bearings only to realize the header clutch doesn't move. Luckily the man in charge was wise enough to realize he was in over his head and call the implement dealer. While you are somewhat right about not trying, if you aren't blessed with the wisdom to know when to stop trying you generally do more harm than good.

I might try to change the injectors on a diesel engine, I wouldn't mess with the timing of the injector pump. The diff is slight but important. Likewise, if a weapon continually jammed I would borrow a Dremel with a polishing head and go to work. If the safety wouldn't engage or the bolt not lock, the friendly local gunsmith would be getting a call.
 
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