Tom Bullins AK47- Shotgun class report

[Joe Leland]

I attended the AK47-shotgun class at Tom Bullins' Trigger Time range in Cameron,NC. Tom is a retired Marine and currently a government/security contractor. The class was from 8AM to 4PM w/45min. lunch. We spent 5 1/2 hours training with the AK47 and 1 1/2 hours training with the shotgun. The class consisted of:

AK47

safety instruction and medical evac. outline, liability waiver

manual of arms, information about the AK47 and the 7.62X39 cartridge

zeroing carbines

standing, sitting, and prone shooting at 35 yards

shooting steel from prone at 50,75,and 100 yards

engaging multiple targets from the 3 previously mentioned positions at 35 yards

"dot" drills at 15 yards: reloading, clearing double feeds, checking carbine status and scanning for hostiles

shooting on the move: forward, serpentine drills from left to right and right to left

repeating the same drill with up to 3 targets

turning into the target from the left and right profile

turning into the target /left and right, from the 180degree (back to target)

left and right angled barracade shooting at target

left and right step out barracade shooting at target

During some of the longer firing strings we had to take 3min. breaks to allow the AK47 barrels to cool off and also to recharge our magazines.

Shotgun (12 Ga)

tactical loading and firing: load one shell, fire... load two shells, fire.. up to 4 shells

top off drills

25 yard multiple target drills with buckshot

40 yard multiple target drills with slugs

At this point we mirrored the training we had earlier in the day with the AK47
except for shooting steel on the range and shooting with movement.
With the temp reaching 100 deg. and high humidity, we were gassed by the end of the training. Tom brought out a SOC-MOD AK47 and a Krinkov 5.45X39 for us to shoot at the end of the day.

Tom's website is www.trigger-time.com He supplied all the rifle ammo and the class was $200.00. I highly reccomend this class. Tom Bullins runs a first class operation and his instructors are top notch.

I will post a follow-up later.

 

[skwerl]

That sounds great Joe, at the price of ammo these days they're practically teaching the class for free!
I'll have to check my magic 8 ball and see if I can make one of the future classes.

Most importantly, did you have fun?

 

[Fred Fuller]

Thanks for posting the review, Joe. Good facility there. Sounds like a great deal on your class too.

lpl/nc

 

[Joe Leland]

The class was a load of fun but was very challenging. The 100 degree heat and high humidity forced us to stay hydrated. I drank 4- 24 ounce Aquafinas during the course and another on the trip home.

Some things during the course I learned:

The AK47 is basically a 100 yard (or less) performer with the 7.62X39 cartridge. There are some exceptions with specific AK47's but from what I saw during our range drills, when you combine standing, kneeling, and prone along with a moving target as another variable, 100 yards is about all I could expect given my ability.

The AK47 after 200 rounds of 7.62X39 really begins to work on your shoulder and upper bicept. This is especially true with the all steel butplate on my East German stock. I shot around 400 rounds so I was really feeling it by the end of the class.

For CQB, the AK47 is a very capable performer once you become familiar with its manual of arms and gain fluidity when deploying the carbine from the low ready. This is ingrained in your muscle memory from repetition and practice. The 7.62X39 round is a massive penetrator, especially in FMJ. If one were looking for a carbine where overpenetration was an issue in CQB, the AK47 would not be on the top of the list. The AK47 would likely be a better performer against hardened targets in CQB than some other carbine. The rear sight of the AK47 is too narrow for CQB in my opinion. I have, since the class, opened up the rear sight notch slightly and painted the front sight post white.

The AK47 is a strong carbine with powerful springs and a lot of sharp edges, not to be handled gingerly or daintily but with authority and respect. Any mistake you make in handling, clearing, loading, or even cleaning this carbine can and will draw blood. I also learned from one of the instructors to never look directly over the ejection port when clearing the AK47. The cleared round will usually hit you with the FMJ tip and cut you. This would be disasterous without eye protection.

The Hungarian 20 round AMD-65 magazines worked great in the AK47.

Loading all steel AK47 magazines really hurts your hands and fingers by the end of the day.

The shotgun rules the 7-50 yard CQB. When you shoot an AK47 for over 5 hours, trying to keep respectable groups in 2-3 round strings at CQB distances (7-25 yards)... then... you switch to an 870 Remington pump 12 gauge(20 in. barrel, 8 shot, old Ashley Big Dotsights), and on your first target at 25 yards place 9 OO pellets center of mass with a group the size of a softball, you quickly realize what weapon delivers the most efficient payload- per-round.

Speer Lawman Tactical OO 12 gauge 2 3/4" buckshot and Winchester Low Recoil OO 12 gauge 2 3/4" buckshot were awesome performers up to 30 yards. They both gave tight centered patterns with quick recovery between shots.

Remington 2 3/4" magnum 12 gauge 1oz. slugs are accurate at 30-50 yards but really pound you. Shooting them prone was the worst experience of the day.

During one of the breaks we shot a Romanian SKS at 50 yards. From the kneeling position this carbine shot a 3" group poa. We used the same ammo in the SKS we were shooting in the AK47's which was Bernaul(?) 123 grain. The ammo was accurate and we only found one bad round the whole day. It had a deformed FMJ bullet.

 

[samtechlan]

The class sounds great. There are not a whole lot of classes out there teaching the AK. I have an arsenal SAM-7 carbine and it is my favorite rifle.

 

[Joe Leland]

I went to get the mail today and recieved my certificate from Tom Bullins for completing the Shotgun/AK47 class. A nice touch to help me remember the class and use as a training reference.

 

[LiquidTension]

That Barnaul ammo you were shooting is some of the better 7.62x39 ammo as far as accuracy. I've only got a few boxes of it left and I'm saving it since the stuff is hard to find nowadays.

I'm going to have to look into that class - it's within driving distance and it's affordable. Thanks for the writeup

What other gear were you using? Any sort of vest or chest rig for magazines? Do you think an aperture sight like a Mojo would have helped?

 

[Gordon]

I'd love to take such a class if it came around this way.I took a CQB carbine /pistol class with combined Scott Reitz and Louis Awerbuck a few years back. I was the only one to use an AK in the class, and yess it DID cut my hands to ribbons! I have an Ultimak mounted Reflex on it(aHungarian M85 with AMD63parts) and a flashlight mount. I took off the vertical fore grip after I was taught to 'speed load" properly. I'd say the AK is a 200 yard gun, however. I took this course with a Beretta M-9 and Scott Reitz showed me all the LAPD learned about it. I was training to go to Afghanistan as a non security contractor. All toll I like the AK over the M-4 , but still keep chooseing the M-4 as it can be made 'tricker and slicker', however NOT as reliable and powerfull as the AK IMHO!

 

[benEzra]

(Joe Leland)
The AK47 is basically a 100 yard (or less) performer with the 7.62X39 cartridge. There are some exceptions with specific AK47's but from what I saw during our range drills, when you combine standing, kneeling, and prone along with a moving target as another variable, 100 yards is about all I could expect given my ability.

(Gordon)
I have an Ultimak mounted Reflex on it...I'd say the AK is a 200 yard gun

IMHO, the sights are the weak link, not the platform or caliber; adding even a 1x optic makes it dramatically easier to shoot well, IMHO. I have a Kobra on my SAR-1, and for me, it's a 200-yard gun with the Kobra and a 100-yard gun without.

 

[Joe Leland]

LiquidTension,

Sorry it took me so long to respond, I've been out of town. Bullins suggested we use the Chinese type 63 chest pouch for the class. http://www.flecktarn.co.uk/odtcr1nx.html

It definitely has the NVA/ terrorist look. I found the type 63 to be very comfortable and easy to use. This chest pouch is just about as "entry level" as it gets, but it worked well and was lightweight. I also welcomed the "breathable" canvas this chest pouch was made of. It was a 100 degree day and the heat and humidity was really tough on me, but due to the construction of the type 63 chest pouch, heat from its use was not an issue. I beleve the Chinese type 84 is a more modern chest pouch that holds 4- 30 rd AK mags instead of the 3-30 rd AK mags the type 63 holds.

I found the rear sight to be very difficult to use so I opened up the rear sight similar to the AK47 in this article: http://www.ak-47.us/Article_Detail.php?g=content1180350875
Overall, my SAR-1 AK47 is very similar th the AK47 in the previously linked article except for the folding stock. My stock is an East German stock.


Gordon and benEzra,

I found the standard AK47 sights limiting me to the 100 yard (or less) range. The SOC-MOD AK47 that Bullins had built definitely extends the range of the AK47 and the 7.62X39 cartridge to 200 yards (with its optics). Here is a link to the SOC-MOD AK47 Bullins had built: http://ww2.bhigear.com/bhm/

I shot Bullins' SOC-MOD AK47 and it is absolutely awesome!