Too Hot or Not 45 acp

[fxvr5]

Lots of speculation here about elevated pressure blowing up guns/barrels. What evidence is there of this actually happening when, say a 45 ACP is loaded to 25,000 psi, which exceeds the SAAMI MAP of 23,000 psi for the 45 ACP +P?

Information to consider. SAAMI MAP limits of:
45 ACP 21,000 psi
45 ACP +P 23,000 psi
45 ACP +P Proof pressure 33,000 psi
45 Super 28,000 psi (no official SAAMI pressure limit)
450 SMC 32,000 psi (no official SAAMI pressure limit)
460 Rowland ~40,000 psi (no official SAAMI pressure limit)
357 Magnum 35,000 psi (if you've ever measured how thin the walls on some 357 Mag revolvers are, it would make you nervous)
9mm Luger 35,000 psi
9mm +P 38,500 psi
40 S&W 35,000 psi
10mm 37,500 psi
38 Super 36,500 psi
356 TSW 50,000 psi
9X23 Winchester 55,000 psi
454 Casull 65,000 psi
460 S&W Magnum 65,000 psi

Have the makers of any of these guns/calibers put a round count limit on their barrels?

Just asking.

 

[Blue68f100]

It's not the barrel in question unless it's been throated too much to support the round. It has more to do about the metal used in the gun and heat treating. On 1911's there are 2 main areas where failure occur, 1 on slide, 1 on receiver. Heat treating of the steel is required, and not all mfg follow the original JB design. Some have improved on it some have cut corners. All it takes is one part in a mix of 1000's that run through the furnace to be shielded and not reach proper temp.

 

[StrykerByte.45]

Yes they are proofed to withstand much greater pressure than they are expected to be subjected to. How many times will they take that amount of overpressure? I don't know.

But, everytime you fire your gun you subject it to heat and pressure, and when that heat and pressure exceeds the design parameters you shorten the life of the gun. Depends on the individual gun, but it may take a lot of overpressure rounds or just a few before it fails, but at some point it will fail.

Take your risks, hopefully nobody gets hurt. I like my body parts where and how they currently are.

chris

How much pressure does an HK 45 handle?

 

[StrykerByte.45]

Even better question,

Which round has more pressure pushing the bullet out, a 9mm or a 45acp?

 

[fxvr5]

It's not the barrel in question unless it's been throated too much to support the round.

If it has been over-throated (too much ramp cut away), then the brass might fail. But that's the brass and not the barrel. And this can happen with standard pressure ammo as well.

It has more to do about the metal used in the gun and heat treating. On 1911's there are 2 main areas where failure occur, 1 on slide, 1 on receiver. Heat treating of the steel is required, and not all mfg follow the original JB design. Some have improved on it some have cut corners. All it takes is one part in a mix of 1000's that run through the furnace to be shielded and not reach proper temp.

Here again, it's not the barrel. A slide or frame might crack or break. But it does not act like a fragmenting grenade.
And if it is not up to standards, it might fail with normal pressure ammo?

 

[Lo-Profile]

I'd shoot them in a steel gun.

My carry load is Atomic Ammo 185g +P that are in excess of 1200 fps. Haven't had any issues with my guns shooting it. I just don't shoot it a lot.

 

[ballman6711]

How much pressure does an HK 45 handle?

I don't know. I would think that it would be proofed just like any other gun (for it's caliber). I also would think that different manufactures would proof their guns to what they think they should, and even if their is a proof spec some manufactures will go above and beyond to ensure their gun is as strong as possible, while others may only just meet the spec. I would suggest you contact HK directly and ask them. If the HK45 is rated for +P then it's rated to handle a continuous 23K psi, what it will really handle is anybody's guess. And like I said before, how many times it will handle that amount of overpressure is also anybody's guess.

Even better question,

Which round has more pressure pushing the bullet out, a 9mm or a 45acp?

In my guns (and I would think in most peoples guns) a 9mm is going to generate more pressure than a 45acp. In your guns, it's hard to say. If you've done the work to ensure that YOUR gun can handle 45 Super or even 460 Rowland, then have fun with it. But at that point it's not really a 45acp anymore, and encouraging people that don't know any better to shoot those hot loads in their unmodified gun is irresponsible IMO.

As for taking risks? Well, I road raced and drag raced motorcycles for a couple of years, as well as riding on the street for many years. I've done 170mph on a track, but that was with a well prepped bike, proper gear, and a few ambulances standing by in case somebody crashed. Yes it was a risk, but it was a calculated risk and I took it. My body hurts everyday because I was a risk taker back then, and I don't feel the need these days to prove anything to myself or anybody else.

I'll say it one last time, have fun and I hope nobody gets hurt.

chris

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I don't know. I would think that it would be proofed just like any other gun (for it's caliber). I also would think that different manufactures would proof their guns to what they think they should, and even if their is a proof spec some manufactures will go above and beyond to ensure their gun is as strong as possible, while others may only just meet the spec. I would suggest you contact HK directly and ask them. If the HK45 is rated for +P then it's rated to handle a continuous 23K psi, what it will really handle is anybody's guess. And like I said before, how many times it will handle that amount of overpressure is also anybody's guess.



In my guns (and I would think in most peoples guns) a 9mm is going to generate more pressure than a 45acp. In your guns, it's hard to say. If you've done the work to ensure that YOUR gun can handle 45 Super or even 460 Rowland, then have fun with it. But at that point it's not really a 45acp anymore, and encouraging people that don't know any better to shoot those hot loads in their unmodified gun is irresponsible IMO.

As for taking risks? Well, I road raced and drag raced motorcycles for a couple of years, as well as riding on the street for many years. I've done 170mph on a track, but that was with a well prepped bike, proper gear, and a few ambulances standing by in case somebody crashed. Yes it was a risk, but it was a calculated risk and I took it. My body hurts everyday because I was a risk taker back then, and I don't feel the need these days to prove anything to myself or anybody else.

I'll say it one last time, have fun and I hope nobody gets hurt.

chris

Nicely put. Maybe too nicely. Some people just need to lose a finger to figure out how sharp the knife is. Risk is something a rational person mitigates, avoids or transfers; it’s not something they seek aggressively. The .45ACP was designed to perform a very specific set of tasks: drop a cavalry horse on the hoof, knock a rider from the saddle, and discourage the enemy from advancing on a vulnerable position.
I’m quoting from memory so please don’t get into the weeds with verbatim discrepancies.
The .45ACP has fallen prey to Magnumitis many times over the decades and each has proven itself to be less of an improvement over the original than the previous.
Let’s try to be as safe as possible out there.

 

[ballman6711]

Nicely put. Maybe too nicely.

I'm trying to stay within the spirit and the rules of the forum. I certainly did put it nicer than what I was really thinking. I enjoy the forum and don't want to get banned.

The OP has already stated the intent to pull the rounds. That's his decision, and I would do the same thing.

Shooting known hot loads is a personal choice. If I feel like my 45acp won't do what I want or need, I'll get a different gun. If I want wide open magnum loads, I have my Taurus chambered in 480 Ruger as well as my 454 Casull.

I think I'm done posting in this thread. It's just not productive. Have a great day everybody.

chris

 

[Walkalong]

The OP has already stated the intent to pull the rounds.

He has, so thid is a good place to finish up.