Tool for cutting out leather over powder wads

[Snidely70431]

Tool for cutting out leather over powder wads - likely would work for felt also.

When I was working out low velocity loads for patched round balls (PRB) for short twist inline muzzle loaders I sometimes used leather over powder wads to protect the cloth patches. I made them using commercial leather punches but found them more trouble than they were worth. Today I got around to making a tool for cutting out a lot of leather wads and I thought I would share it with the group.





The major body of the tool is two pieces of flat steel, both 1" x 3/16", one 7 1/2" long, the other 8 1/2" long. They are fastened together at the left end (in the pictures) with a piece of 1/2" round rod peened at both ends. They are separated with two pieces of steel banding to provide space for the leather. The tool is positioned for punching out the leather wads with a piece of 9/16 steel round rod reduced to 1/2" at the right end. The actual punching is done with a punch made of 5/8" round rod reduced to 1/2" to fit in the holes in the middle.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Seems like a lot of work to keep from burning a patch. I use a pinch of hornets nest material over the powder. It works well and a little goes a long way.

 

[Birdhunter1]

I use spent casings as a leather punch more often than I use my actual leather punch tool. I can usually get 4 or 5 holes in saddle leather out of used .24 or .30 cal casings.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I’m interested to know how this is superior to a commercial leather punch.

 

[Snidely70431]

I’m interested to know how this is superior to a commercial leather punch.

It cost a couple of dollars in materials and a couple hours lathe and drill press time, and I learned what works to cut out leather with a punch. My harbor Freight set of hole punches never did work well.

 

[ThomasT]

I just use a second patch over the powder then the patched abll. My ball patches look so good after firing that they could almost be relubed and reused. Neat idea but it sure looks like a lot of extra work.

 

[aarondhgraham]

I’m interested to know how this is superior to a commercial leather punch.

So am I.

If your punch is sharp,,,
There should be no problem.

Unless,,,
You are not using it with a proper punching pad.

Aarond

.

 

[earlthegoat2]

So am I.

If your punch is sharp,,,
There should be no problem.

Unless,,,
You are not using it with a proper punching pad.

Aarond

.

I have Osborne punches and keep them sharp and they work great. I’m sure there is a big difference between them and HF punches. Even worse would be the multi punch that looks like pliers.

Either way the procedure has been simplified by the OP and it looks like it was a fun project.

 

[Snidely70431]

So am I.

If your punch is sharp,,,
There should be no problem.

Unless,,,
You are not using it with a proper punching pad.

Aarond

.

One of the advantages of this system is that the punch that cuts the wad never hits bottom. It is short enough that it stops before it reaches the bottom of the lower piece of steel because of the shoulder on the punch.

 

[Mizar]

Like others have mentioned, it looks like a solution to a non-existing problem, but if it works for you...

 

[J-Bar]

Like others have mentioned, it looks like a solution to a non-existing problem, but if it works for you...

I like craftsmanship and innovation, and I admire the effort you have put into this, but I have to agree with Mizar. If you can show that your leather wads improve accuracy significantly then I will try them. Otherwise, I will continue to use a different over-the-powder wad in my Hawken. I like to use a very moist lubricated patch around my ball, but I don't want the lube on the patch to moisten the power. So I tear off a piece of paper towel about 1 1/2 inches square, wad it up, and seat it over the powder before ramming the patched ball down the bore. Seems to work OK so far. I would love to see photos of range tests that prove a leather patch is better than what I am presently using.

 

[drobs]

Looks good.

This is how I cut felt wads.

 

[Snidely70431]

I have Osborne punches and keep them sharp and they work great. I’m sure there is a big difference between them and HF punches. Even worse would be the multi punch that looks like pliers.

Either way the procedure has been simplified by the OP and it looks like it was a fun project.

1

7 PIECE PUNCH SET 1/4"-1" $247.18 20% Off!
Item K-14
C.S. OSBORNE
Hand Tools
Chisels, Punches and Pins
Price x Std Pk
Quantity / Order
$198.58 x 1 SET

K-14 7 PIECE PUNCH SET 1/4"-1"More Details..
Images by manufacturer, product appearance may vary. Refer only to product name and number for size, model & color.
Std. Pck 1SET 4.00 Lbs.

† Image may not represent exact item.
Punch Sets, Arch Punch Set, English, 7 Punches 1/4 in - 1 in, Pouch

Manufacturer: C.S. OSBORNE
Item #: 565-K-14
For almost $200 I would hope the Osbourne punches would work well! As for the pliers type multi-punch, they are small and work OK for what they are designed for, like holes in a work for studs or snaps.

 

[Snidely70431]

Looks good.

This is how I cut felt wads.

Interesting. That is Harbor Freight Item #67030, that sells for $8.99. I have never seen that item at a Harbor Freight store. Have you ever tried it on leather?

 

[earlthegoat2]

For almost $200 I would hope the Osbourne punches would work well! As for the pliers type multi-punch, they are small and work OK for what they are designed for, like holes in a work studs or snaps.

It should probably also be known that I am a hobby leatherworker and I sell my work to fund the hobby. I have never shot black powder cartridges before.

The thread title just got me interested.

 

[drobs]

Interesting. That is Harbor Freight Item #67030, that sells for $8.99. I have never seen that item at a Harbor Freight store. Have you ever tried it on leather?

Yes Sir - that's the one.
https://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-hollow-punch-set-67030.html

I haven't tried it on leather but imagine it would work just fine. Not sure if all HF stores are set up the same but I found these hanging on the right hand wall a ways down from the air powered impact wrenches and tools.

 

[Snidely70431]

It should probably also be known that I am a hobby leatherworker and I sell my work to fund the hobby. I have never shot black powder cartridges before.

The thread title just got me interested.

I bought a bunch of leather working stuff years ago from Tandy, mostly, but never felt my work was good enough to be competitive. I still have a lot of it.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Snidely, excellent machine work for making a little known traditional patch. Ive read of settlers, fur traders etc using thin leather/buckskin as a patch and most likely also as a wad. I believe they used it to keep from contaminating their powder. I dont remember if any of them lubed the leather or not...but in any case it seems like a good way to also make use of scrap leather u cant really use but also dont want to just waste by throwing away. A lot of us guys in this hobby tend to all have some ratty old thin scraps of leather tucked away that we just cant seem to throw out but also cant seem to find a use for...this is an excellent way to find a use for it. Thank you for sharing sir!

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

1

7 PIECE PUNCH SET 1/4"-1" $247.18 20% Off!
Item K-14
C.S. OSBORNE
Hand Tools
Chisels, Punches and Pins
Price x Std Pk
Quantity / Order
$198.58 x 1 SET

K-14 7 PIECE PUNCH SET 1/4"-1"More Details..
Images by manufacturer, product appearance may vary. Refer only to product name and number for size, model & color.
Std. Pck 1SET 4.00 Lbs.
View attachment 836239
† Image may not represent exact item.
Punch Sets, Arch Punch Set, English, 7 Punches 1/4 in - 1 in, Pouch

Manufacturer: C.S. OSBORNE
Item #: 565-K-14
For almost $200 I would hope the Osbourne punches would work well! As for the pliers type multi-punch, they are small and work OK for what they are designed for, like holes in a work for studs or snaps.

I do a lot of leather work and honestly I've had just as good of luck with the cheap ones, I don't know where I got them but have a China made set that I've been using for every bit of ten years and they work better than the CS Osborne stuff. I've always had to resharpen the CS Osborne punches to get satisfactory results and usually have to do the same with the cheap ones too so no sense in spending that money.

Nothing against CS Osborne tools, they are fine and use a lot of them but just when it comes to the punches they aren't as good as the money you pay for them. I've found out that I'd rather go with the cheap ones and modify them or go ahead and spend a little more and actually get good ones from some of the custom leather tool makers.

 

[arcticap]

Tool for cutting out leather over powder wads - likely would work for felt also.

When I was working out low velocity loads for patched round balls (PRB) for short twist inline muzzle loaders I sometimes used leather over powder wads to protect the cloth patches. I made them using commercial leather punches but found them more trouble than they were worth. Today I got around to making a tool for cutting out a lot of leather wads and I thought I would share it with the group.

View attachment 836038

View attachment 836039

The major body of the tool is two pieces of flat steel, both 1" x 3/16", one 7 1/2" long, the other 8 1/2" long. They are fastened together at the left end (in the pictures) with a piece of 1/2" round rod peened at both ends. They are separated with two pieces of steel banding to provide space for the leather. The tool is positioned for punching out the leather wads with a piece of 9/16 steel round rod reduced to 1/2" at the right end. The actual punching is done with a punch made of 5/8" round rod reduced to 1/2" to fit in the holes in the middle.

On Amazon, those are often called a "metal disc punch" or "jewelry disc cutters" or "disc cutter" and mostly used for cutting thin metal discs up to a certain gauge of sheet metal thickness.
They come in many different sizes, shapes, in sets and price ranges.
This product page has a 0:28 video at the bottom of the page that shows how it works. --->>> https://www.amazon.com/Jewelry-Hard...al+disc+punch&qid=1555186621&s=gateway&sr=8-3
When I first saw one, it occurred to me that maybe it could be used for black powder shooting.
It's nice that you made one that works for your needs.
Are some of them somehow sharpened at the bottom edge to help them make cleaner cuts?
I thought that I saw that the bottoms of some of the dies have a slightly concave surface to help make a sharper cut.

 

[Snidely70431]

On Amazon, those are often called a "metal disc punch" or "jewelry disc cutters" or "disc cutter" and mostly used for cutting thin metal discs up to a certain gauge of sheet metal thickness.
They come in many different sizes, shapes, in sets and price ranges.
This product page has a 0:28 video at the bottom of the page that shows how it works. --->>> https://www.amazon.com/Jewelry-Hard...al+disc+punch&qid=1555186621&s=gateway&sr=8-3
When I first saw one, it occurred to me that maybe it could be used for black powder shooting.
It's nice that you made one that works for your needs.
Are some of them somehow sharpened at the bottom edge to help them make cleaner cuts?
I thought that I saw that the bottoms of some of the dies have a slightly concave surface to help make a sharper cut.

The first punch I made had a concave surface, and it did not work well. I used a 1/2 inch round nose reamer to get the concave surface. The second punch I simply finished it off flat in my lathe and reduced it to about .498" to fit the holes, and it cut the wads fine.

Looking at the picture, I see what you mean about one of the punches having what seems to be a concave surface. The object on the right is actually the pin that positions the two steel pieces so the punch is in line with the holes. It had a drill hole in it when I put it in the lathe, I reuse material when I can.

 

[arcticap]

The concave bottom probably helps more when cutting stiff metal than a loose material like leather that can stretch.
Some of those jewelry punches can be quite expensive too.