Traditional Regional Knives

[Sovblocgunfan]

I know there are traditional pieces of cutlery that are often associated with regions of the world. For example, the puukko is considered a traditional Finnish blade. Or scimitars in the middle east, bowies in the american south, etc.

This is going to sound odd, but is there a “traditional” blade associated with the Swiss? Not talking about a SAK, but something fixed blade and maybe a bit old-fashioned. Online, I see the SAK, and the “swiss dagger”, but not much else. Thanks in advance.

 

[Browning]

The Swiss dagger would probably be the most likely to be considered their historical knife because of their pikemen.

Fighting mainly as pikemen, the Swiss of the 15th Century used their iconic 10-foot pikes in an offensive capacity. Each pikeman carried a short sword and dagger but wore comparatively little armor. Helmets and breastplates were rare, although leather jerkins and gloves enjoyed more widespread use.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/military-history/the-history-of-swiss-pikemen/

They'd use it as a backup piece to their short sword if close in after the pike.

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

Very cool, thank you. It interests me that the SS dagger is essentially the swiss dagger. And both the blades here are Boker offerings (I love Boker).




Also, I ask because I learned my ancestors were in Bern before they came to America just before the Revolution. One of them volunteered at 63 years old and was at Valley Forge!!

Anyway, because of that I thought it would be nice to add a Swiss blade to the knife roll. I have a couple of SAK’s, but wanted something traditional.

 

[entropy]

The Baselard dagger, as the SS dagger pictured above is an example of is associated with the Swiss mercenaries of the 16th and 17 centuries.
Closest I come is the Wegner bayonet for the SIG AMT.

 

[hso]

Scandinavia has what we think of as "viking" knives/swords as well as various puukko variants.

Germany has the Mercator folders, Denmark an axe, Spain has the Navaja folder, Italy has the stilletto fixed and folding blades, Sicily has a characteristic folder, Japan has a lot of swords/knives associated with them, northern and southern China have scores knives/swords, SE asia has a range of large knives/swords, Philippines have the butterfly, Canada has their sheath knife and Hudson Bay axe, etc.

 

[Browning]

Very cool, thank you. It interests me that the SS dagger is essentially the swiss dagger. And both the blades here are Boker offerings (I love Boker).

They basically borrowed from every part of German culture to create their ideology and the Swiss from the northern part of Switzerland speak German.

Sort of makes sense I guess.

If I remember right I remember seeing a lot of hunting daggers in Bavaria when I lived there. From the shape presumably not to skin the animal, but maybe to finish the animal off.

Maybe being so close to the border they also borrowed elements of the Swiss dagger, except theirs don't seem to have those crescents in the handle.

There appear to have been a couple types of Swiss daggers. The Schweizerdolch just appears to have been the most popular.

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

They basically borrowed from every part of German culture to create their ideology and the Swiss from the northern part of Switzerland speak German.

Sort of makes sense I guess.

If I remember right I remember seeing a lot of hunting daggers in Bavaria when I lived there. From the shape presumably not to skin the animal, but maybe to finish the animal off.

Maybe being so close to the border they also borrowed elements of the Swiss dagger, except theirs don't seem to have those crescents in the handle.

There appear to have been a couple types of Swiss daggers. The Schweizerdolch just appears to have been the most popular.

Yes, borrowing culture cues is how most conquering cultures obtain acquiescence from the conquered (the Swiss would have been a target eventually).

I appreciate your observations about daggers in Bavaria. As with all things, I’m sure there was (and still is) lots of sharing amongst the folks in that area.

 

[DDDWho]

 

[alfsauve]

Since Bowie started out, reportedly says some, in Georgia I'd think we might be partial to his design here in the SE region.

But note, if it doesn't have a full clip point then it just isn't real to me. Drop or modified drops don't hack it.

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

Since Bowie started out, reportedly says some, in Georgia I'd think we might be partial to his design here in the SE region.

But note, if it doesn't have a full clip point then it just isn't real to me. Drop or modified drops don't hack it.

Gotcha covered in the OP! FWIW i agree on the clip point.

 

[hso]

Since Bowie started out, reportedly says some, in Georgia

The knife had its start in Louisiana. Large D-guard "bowies" were common in the Confederate forces, until dumped in ditches as too heavy on force marches.

 

[alfsauve]

The knife had its start in Louisiana. Large D-guard "bowies" were common in the Confederate forces, until dumped in ditches as too heavy on force marches.

Copy that the knife started in LA. I should have been more specific. Jim Bowie, according to some historians, spent some of his early childhood in Burke county, GA. That's my connection. I spent mine in northern Jenkins county which was originally part of old Burke County.

 

[lemaymiami]

For those interested in pre-war and WWII German military items remember that in the run up to the big war Germany had come from a devastated first world war loser to a thriving, growing economy.... and they had a special emphasis on ceremonial items for their dress uniforms and all the propaganda they were engaged in... I'm sure companies that were even possibly affiliated culturally were encouraged to bid on this or that - then provide their best work products to the Nazi machine...

Since I grew up as an Army brat living in Germany, France and other countries when I was a kid.... daggers, swords, and other purely ceremonial items were to be found at any flea market you went to (this was in the late fifties - by 1960 my family was back stateside to stay..).

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

Yes, I’ve heard same. And dress and ceremony were big things that put lots of importance on doing what the country wanted done.

Did you know Hugo Boss was a chief designer of most of the uniforms for the SS?

Anyway, I digress. For lack of anything different I’m going with the dagger as the “representative” piece for the knife roll.

This repro should do it: https://www.by-the-sword.com/p-14175-german-sa-dagger.aspx

 

[Slamfire]

Bernard Levine in his book "Guide to Knives, and this web page, The Congress Knife: Y'all Come Together!, claim that the Congress pattern knife was popular, or made for, the Southern region of the United States. This is hard to evaluate, based on a few old timers I have met, maybe it was up to the 1960's. With the mobility of today's America, it would be hard to prove that any one pattern predominates in any region. But I do believe the claim that the Congress was predominately a Southern knife.

Probably inspired the "Johnny Reb" edition of the Great American Story knives, this pattern came out in 1975.




This came from a flea market vendor. Based on the emblem, probably 1960's to 1970's, might be earlier, I don't have a good basis to establish a firm date.



This American made Boker is likely from the 1970's



The Laguiole has a clear French lineage. It makes for an excellent kitchen knife.














It is very poor for pocket carry due to the fact the French, for what ever reason, produce this knife with very little clearance between the edge and the spring. A few makers don't control this, and I have a few of these where the knife came from the factory with the edge, or the tip, in contact with the spring! I really dislike self dulling knives! The examples I have from Vent d' Aubrac and En Aubrac don't have this problem, the factory made the spring with with a high point to elevate the blade off the spring. The best way to deal with a Laquoile that allows the edge to contact the mainspring is to glue a strip of cartridge brass on the mainspring under the ricasso of the blade. I had to adjust the brass thickness to keep the point inside the handle, as there is very little adjustment clearance in this design. Given there is little clearance inside the handle, with a closed blade, the edge will make contact with the mainspring if pocket carried. .

Due to an eccentric cam, the blade is stays open with a significant amount of spring pressure. You cannot let the blade snap closed under spring pressure as the edge will contact the spring. I have to hold the blade almost all the way down before releasing.

While the fit, polish, and Sandvick steels are excellent, I have no idea why the French make this knife with so little clearance between the edge and the mainspring. This is my major compliant as, too often, I have had to sharpen the edges due to pocket carry damage, or if the blade snaps closed.

The handle materials drive the cost. Mammoth ivory, Ram's horn, exotic woods, even semi precious gems, are made into handle slabs. The more exotic the material, the higher the price!

 

[bikerdoc]

I have a few vintage ones I'm real proud of and aquired cheaply.

My dad gave me a Hitler youth dagger he "Liberated" in 1945.

 

[kBob]

The southern German hunting knife is for delivering a final wound to deer to assure they are not suffering. The Deer is set in position and a sprig of greenery placed in its mouth and it is stabbed through the spine down into the heart area as the hunter expresses sadness for removing the beast from its home and the loss to nature in general of the deer. My spelling is awful and even more so in German I believe the name used was Hirschmesser basically Deer Knife

As a kid I sometimes carried a Hitler Youth knife, most likely a reproduction that had no blade etching and the "Jewel" was replaced with a diamond shaped bit of plastic painted red on one long end of the diamond shape and white on the other. The blade was marked OTHELLO and featured a stamp of the head of that character just forward of the guard. The other side had the magic word name of the German "city of the knife" on it. It took and held a fine edge and its flatness even in the sheath made it easy to carry un noticed even in town, especially tucked in a pocket while attached to the belt. As it resembled a Shrunken Mauser bayonet I assumed it was full tang and was over 50 when I discovered other wise. The tang extended just past the guard and was then looped about the first handle rivet. The black plastic grip panels had warped and cracked in storage over 15 or so years and I had intended to replace them with wood. Disliking this tang set up I never repaired the knife and have been unable to find the parts even though the Spousal Units says I never throw out anything.

During the early and Mid 1970's as a US Infantryman in Europe I often carried the then issue German Army Knife that had a blade much like the Hitler Youth Knife and a grip that resembled a more rounded version of the Swiss Dagger or SA/SS Daggers. I thought it an EXCELLENT field knife and one has gone along a few Scout events over the years.

-kBob

 

[dvcrsn]

in terms of French blades--don't forget the Opinel and Sabatier

 

[Kabic]

 

[hso]

Let's make that a little easier for us bespectacled folks to read. ;-)

 

[Kabic]

Maybe the link to the page where i stole this from is needed

https://www.knifeplanet.net/iconic-knives-in-europe/

 

[hso]

Douk-Douk


Okapi


Higonokami


Kukri


Jambaya


Kris


Mallorca

 

[Browning]

Yes, borrowing culture cues is how most conquering cultures obtain acquiescence from the conquered (the Swiss would have been a target eventually).

To a large degree they are Germanic and that was their thing. To bring everyone under their umbrella. So at some point ... probably.

I appreciate your observations about daggers in Bavaria. As with all things, I’m sure there was (and still is) lots of sharing amongst the folks in that area.

Culturally they're pretty similar. Neighbors who were often under the same ruler and who shared a common language.

Some differences in religion depending on the canton.

 

[Vonderek]

I've been meaning to put these pics up for a few months now but life (and death) keeps getting in the way. I went on a fantastic vacation to Europe in September and as is my wont in such scenarios I looked for some local knives to help me remember the places I visited. Nothing like a physical souvenir to connect your memory to a place and time.
As of late I have been in a rebellious Luddite phase and have only been interested in old-school friction folders or slipjoints with wooden handles.

Anyway, apologies for the rather poor photos. The available light this morning was not the greatest and the quality of the photos suffered.

First up are a couple knives I bought in Paris at the excellent Courty Et Fils knife store near the opera house. One is a Le Fidele Laguiole knife with beautiful file work and engraving on the spine and back of knife (not seen in photo) and ebony handle. Also in the photo is a Savignac L'Aiegeois

I also have to post some Opinels (#6, 8, and 10):

 

[Vonderek]

Here are some knives I bought in Toledo, Spain. Funny, there are literally no knife stores I could find in the larger cities of Madrid and Barcelona. However, in Toledo there are two or three stores on every block selling varying degrees of quality knives, swords,and armor.

The knife on top is a Nieto Climber. Very lovely wood. The bottom knife has no maker's mark and has the ubiquitous "Toldeo" stamp. Was it really made in China or Pakistan? Maybe? Probably? I don't care, I bought it because it's lines are a nod to the traditional Spanish navaja and the wood and brass pins and steel fit and finish are superb. And it reminds me of one of my favorite all-time medieval cities.