Training at academies -- pickup your brass?

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westernrover

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I want to know from anyone who has been to a 3 to 5 day long class at any of the popular schools, whether it was possible or practical to pickup your brass. I want to know not just whether the school will give permission to scrounge around on the range to pick it up, but also whether students will find they have time to do this.

If I shoot about 1200 to 1500 cases or so, I've paid about $250 for those and don't want to donate that to the range if I can avoid that expense. If it's not practical to pickup brass, I guess that means either buying some cheaper used mix brass which would still cost me about $150, or using moon clips which might pay for themselves in saved brass.

One local class I attended, I was able to pick up brass and also received brass from other students who didn't reload. But it was only about 50 rounds, so it didn't make much difference.
 
At the classes I have attended things moved too fast for a police call after every order. There was always a final police call after the class was over.
 
At the classes I have attended things moved too fast for a police call after every order. There was always a final police call after the class was over.

Same here, at the end of the day I was allowed to police what I wanted. Last couple of classes I've taken were LE sponsored, brand new brass and the Dept. guys didn't want it back, so I made out like a bandit.
 
I'm sure it varies from place to place, but at the end of a full day of shooting I've always seen "my" brass mixed with a lot of everyone else's brass. Could I grab some of it? Sure. (If nothing else I always seem to wind up with a casing or two that land in my pockets on their own - sometimes not from my gun.) If you're on a static firing line you can probably pick up a lot of it (especially with a revolver), but when you're moving and/or trying to do fast reloads I don't think it is realistic to expect to pick that up.
 
My thought is if I'm paying $1,000 to $3,000+ to attend a class (class plus travel, lodging and meals) the last thing I'm going to worry about is brass. Same with any match costing $100+ to enter. Concentrate on the important matter at hand. Let it go, Indy

BTB: Starline brass (9mm & .38spl) is only $136/thousand.
 
Usually I shoot quality brass fmj, but for classes, I might shoot a case of ammo that isn't exactly my favorite to reload.

I'm usually too beat up to want to spend hours after class hunched over picking up brass.
 
I'm with the sentiment that classes move too fast for pick up. Also, you might do it at lunch but then you miss the informal but highly interesting chat with the instructors and other students.

Also, with no insult - if I see guns go bad - a lot of times it is because of someone's reloads. I'm sure someone will say - NOT WITH MINE!!

You don't want to be that guy who hold up an exercise because the gun has to go through a Forge and Fire exercise to get it to run again. Just a thought. Buy quality factory ammo.
 
You mention 'moon clips' are you seriously considering a pistol fighting class that expends 1200 rounds using a revolver? Most all high volume classes forbid reloads (I know your reloads are safer than factory so are mine) this is a liability issue for the guy next to you. One place I fired 2200 rounds in 4 days the owner of the range requires us to pick up the brass & steel but did not want us keep it. Another class I came home with 7 lbs of 9 mm, but did not attempt to pick it up until class was over & most of the students left. Go with alsauve you will spend more in gas than you will loose in brass. Focus on learning to fight NOT scrounging brass. Picture self in a street fight: your gun is shot dry you stop during your reload to retrieve your brass, not a good way to train.
 
If I am paying to attend a class, my focus is on paying attention to the instruction.

I would check with them to see what their policy is on collecting brass and if allowed, should be able to do so after class.

When I took my defensive training class with other USPSA match shooters who all reloaded (instructor was range owner and USPSA RSO), none of us worried about picking up brass. After each class, all the brass were swept up and dumped into a 55 gallon drum. Anyone who wanted brass was allowed to get them from the barrel (which was usually full as class took place in the evening after full day of range brass collection).
 
Wow, these reactions are very contrary to mine. I have taken exactly one serious, multi-day class. It was competition oriented. Pretty much everyone was shooting reloads. Most folks tried to reclaim some of their brass, mostly at the end of the day. I would not even remotely consider attending a class that either did not allow my usual handmade ammo nor one that prohibited me from picking up my own brass when the class was over. Zero chance.
 
Wow, these reactions are very contrary to mine. I have taken exactly one serious, multi-day class. It was competition oriented. Pretty much everyone was shooting reloads. Most folks tried to reclaim some of their brass, mostly at the end of the day. I would not even remotely consider attending a class that either did not allow my usual handmade ammo nor one that prohibited me from picking up my own brass when the class was over. Zero chance.

I think for most folks it's going to be what their course was oriented towards that makes the difference. A competition class has a bunch of shooters who expect to shoot handloads and scrounge brass; which is a normal part of the competition routine. A SD/HD class usually doesn't have too many folks with that mindset.

Back to the OP's question:

It's going to depend on the facility it's hosted at, and who's hosting. I've been to everything from open enrollment civilian classes at public pay by the hour ranges to LE/MIL only classes at LE & MIL ranges. I've also taught a bunch across that spectrum as well. Usually the instructor has little say, it's more on the range on how they like things done. I personally don't care one way or the other on brass call, it's whatever the facility wants.

I can say that normally if you are shooting outdoor in an open bay type environment you usually can bring home brass. Also if you ask politely, particularly when it's a large class, you will probably be able to recover at least enough brass to equal what you shot even if you're indoors on fixed lanes. Most of the time if it's not a place that normally has a "if it hits the floor it's ours" policy, you can take home whatever you want so long as the range is brassed up at the end of the day.

I shot a class down at Lackland AFB years ago for work, and I asked the RO if I could grab some brass. He told me everyone had to turn in bucket of brass per person if we did that the rest was all mine. Then comes brass call and we all got handed a tiny little pail, that held maybe 50 5.56 cases. I drove out of there with about 35 lbs of 5.56 brass.
 
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I think for most folks it's going to be what their course was oriented towards that makes the difference. A competition class has a bunch of shooters how expect to shoot handloads and scrounge brass; which is a normal part of the competition routine. A SD/HD class usually doesn't have too many folks with that mindset.

Sure, I think that's right... I was just expressing my surprise and illustrating the different mentalities.

I also won't shoot at a "if it hits the floor its ours" range. I'm fortunate to have access to ranges near me without that kind of attitude, and the ones that want to confiscate my property don't get any of my business.
 
One of the training facilities, I've attended won't allow aluminum. You can scrounge after all is done at the end of the day for brass. However, if you leave aluminum it is just garbage to them. Competition classes are different from SD/tac classes. Just don't scrounge during a firing session - you folks must have seen the classic video of someone doing the hen pecking as the firing commences.

One range has a rule that you can pick up during the match, what you shoot or another shooter's if you get permission. After a stage is done - you are done. If you try to do that, you get banned from the joint. One notorious scrounger was set up with a pile of nice brass on a state that clearly wasn't shot by the competitors and busted as he pecked. It is also quite annoying when we are setting up, taping, doing new targets and tearing down, and someone is pecking.

I don't follow pricing but my reloader friends say that current deals of 9mm can beat reloading prices at times.
 
There's absolutely a time to peck and a time not to peck. Anyone who lets brass collection slow down a class or a competitor's run is being a jerk, and anyone who bails on doing their share of the work in favor of grabbing brass is also a jerk.

That's a separate issue than a blanket "thou shalt not peck" commandment.
 
Call me lazy, but I wouldn’t attend a class where I had to police brass. If I reloaded, I’d be all over getting brass and wouldn’t like leaving it.
 
One of the training facilities, I've attended won't allow aluminum. You can scrounge after all is done at the end of the day for brass. However, if you leave aluminum it is just garbage to them.

LOL.That's funny. All I shoot in my plastic 9mm is aluminum. It's so cheap, I can let it hit the ground and not care.
I don't follow pricing but my reloader friends say that current deals of 9mm can beat reloading prices at times.

Possibly. But definitely cheap enough that it makes my time lost reloading not worth the hassle.
 
There's absolutely a time to peck and a time not to peck. Anyone who lets brass collection slow down a class or a competitor's run is being a jerk, and anyone who bails on doing their share of the work in favor of grabbing brass is also a jerk.

That's a separate issue than a blanket "thou shalt not peck" commandment.

Guess I'm a jerk, then. I'm the only guy in our league shooting a revolver. I make sure I always shoot last in my time slot. That way, I can pick up all of my brass. If I don't shoot last, then the shooters after me always grind my brass (speed loaders, too) into the snow. Do you know how painful it is to pick up brass at 10˚F, even with gloves on, once it's ground into the snow? You can't feel your fingers.

If I don't reload, I don't compete. It just costs too much to buy factory ammo every week. I run the scorekeeping iPad (practiscore), and I tape targets when I'm not shooting, but when I'm done, I get my brass. I always loose a few here and there, and I don't worry about that little bit. ONE TIME...I chose not to pick up brass; it was -5˚F
 
anyone who bails on doing their share of the work

This is something I don't understand, although I'm aware that it's a common practice. I pay $200/yr for a membership at my range. I pay $65/ gun for each league season (10 weeks and there are 4 seasons/yr). I usually shoot two guns. That all works out to...$720/year I pay to participate. Explain to me why I'm expected to set up and take down the course? What then, exactly, am I paying for?
 
This is something I don't understand, although I'm aware that it's a common practice. I pay $200/yr for a membership at my range. I pay $65/ gun for each league season (10 weeks and there are 4 seasons/yr). I usually shoot two guns. That all works out to...$720/year I pay to participate. Explain to me why I'm expected to set up and take down the course? What then, exactly, am I paying for?

I can't speak to the specifics of your situation, but in most of the U.S. most shooting matches are produced on a volunteer basis, with nobody getting paid to put on the matches. Setting aside range membership, match fees usually cover things like the material costs, any license/fee that has to get kicked up to a bigger organization, rental of the range space from the range if the match isn't directly sponsored by the range, etc.

I was the match director for a USPSA match for 4 years. I didn't put a single dollar in my pocket from it. Nobody was paying me. It wasn't "my job" to do anything, except that I had agreed to make the match happen... just because I love that match and wanted to see it continue thriving. I didn't have any budget to pay people to set up or tear down. All of our money went to rent the range space/time, to pay for the targets we were shooting up, on unkeep for props, kicking up to the national organization, etc.

If you're shooting for-profit matches and the organizers have expressed that they are paying people to do the work, great. Pay your money and shoot. If they're dependent on volunteer labor, then everyone should do their fair share.
 
Explain to me why I'm expected to set up and take down the course? What then, exactly, am I paying for?
Basically what you're paying for is Access. Access to the range to cover their insurance and other fixed cost. What you pay to the club is for paper targets and steel...as well as range rental and wear and tear on equipment.

As already stated, most shooting sports are run on a volunteer basis. If folks didn't step up to design and build stages, administer the match, and tear down stages, there wouldn't be any matches. Clubs usually have to also carry their own insurance and have to pay fees to their governing bodies.

$65/season is only $6.50/week. Our local club charges $25 per match for no-members and $15 for members...we run 12 matches a year...and that amount just barely keeps up with supplies we use
 
Anyone who lets brass collection slow down a class or a competitor's run is being a jerk
This is the key difference between shooting in a match and attending a class.

In a match, as long as all targets are getting taped and props reset, no one cares if you pick up brass...but don't be "that guy" still picking up brass when the next shooter is ready to run. That is mostly an IDPA thing as USPSA usually picks up after the last shooter in the squad has completed that stage.

During a class, you're not going to have time to pick up your brass between relays on drills. Between drills, you'd miss out on instruction.

When I attended Gunsite, someone asked about picking up brass and were told that they were welcome to do that at the end of the class (5 days)...and we shot until dark
 
This is one thing that I've never, ever even thought about when attending any commercial training courses. Seriously, if you've got the energy left to pick up brass at the end of the day, I don't think you're working hard enough. I normally can't wait to get back to the motel, open a cold brew, gorge on pizza or Mexican food while catching Sportscenter, shower and hit the rack early. While I can be as cheap as the next guy and want to score all the brass I can when shooting at the club or one of my local ranges, when I'm paying for training, I just write off my ammo as part of the overall training expense.
 
At GunSite you will not have time. For the $$ you are spending ask questions, map your last and next shot, observe others. At the end of the day I was absolutely exhausted.
 
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Guess I'm a jerk, then. I'm the only guy in our league shooting a revolver. I make sure I always shoot last in my time slot. That way, I can pick up all of my brass. If I don't shoot last, then the shooters after me always grind my brass (speed loaders, too) into the snow. Do you know how painful it is to pick up brass at 10˚F, even with gloves on, once it's ground into the snow? You can't feel your fingers.

If I don't reload, I don't compete. It just costs too much to buy factory ammo every week. I run the scorekeeping iPad (practiscore), and I tape targets when I'm not shooting, but when I'm done, I get my brass. I always loose a few here and there, and I don't worry about that little bit. ONE TIME...I chose not to pick up brass; it was -5˚F

So are you saying you are always the last guy in your squad to shoot? So you always get to watch all the other shooters shoot the stage and you never have to go first? I must be misunderstanding something...
 
This is one thing that I've never, ever even thought about when attending any commercial training courses. Seriously, if you've got the energy left to pick up brass at the end of the day, I don't think you're working hard enough. I normally can't wait to get back to the motel, open a cold brew, gorge on pizza or Mexican food while catching Sportscenter, shower and hit the rack early. While I can be as cheap as the next guy and want to score all the brass I can when shooting at the club or one of my local ranges, when I'm paying for training, I just write off my ammo as part of the overall training expense.

Some is age, some is motivation, some is just how used to being on the range you are. First full day class I ever taught, I was done, passed out almost as soon as I got home. A couple years later I made our full time range cadre at work, after 5 years of teaching all day, I'd stay and shoot another hour or two just for fun most days even on Fridays. Same being a student, first full day on the range I was beat. Now days if the department is buying ammo, I'll hang out and shoot for at least an hour or two if they'll let me.
 
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