Training is the way to win. Personal expierience!

[DT Guy]

Glad you're OK.

Wish you had been able to ignore/defuse the doofus.

Wish you hadn't let him get a hand on you.

Wish you had steered the training, rather than the training steering you.

Wish you had stopped as soon as his attack stopped, since that's generally what the law requires.

Perfect? No, but any one you survive teaches you how to do better.


Larry

 

[JGReed]

You got in a fight, big deal. People can sit and MMQB the wisdom of your tactics all day long but it was your choice to stand up to the guy and it turned out alright. He started it and you finished it. Nice job in my opnion.

Regarding the driving drunk OTOH, claiming you chose the lesser of two evils and "erred on the side of caution" is a red herring. You knew you were impaired (at least that's the reason you claim the guy landed his first punch) but planned to drive before you ever met the guy.

I occasionally drink myself so here's a secret: I HAVE been arrested for DUI (man would I like a do-over for that evening). And as ashamed as I felt pleading guilty to a judge, I was PAINFULLY aware of how ashamed I'd have felt pleading for forgiveness from the family of someone who was hurt or killed because "a little slowed by drink, I dodged a little late and incompletely" with my truck. The legal consequences are the least of my concerns...I set the bar higher for myself. If you consider that to be climbing aboard a high horse, so be it. Personally I'd be more impressed if you'd just man up and admit you just shoulda called a cab.

I've told everyone I've ever taught to shoot that it only takes a milisecond to make a mistake. Once the firing pin drops, all the regret and apologies in the world won't bring that bullet back or alter what it hits and destroys. It's no different with a vehicle.

 

[buzz_knox]

I have no moral obligation to do anything for anyone.

You have a moral obligation not to harm an innocent person, nor to recklessly endanger that person.

If you don't have that most basic of moral obligations, then you have no morals at all.

 

[pax]

I still maintain that I only made two mistakes.
1. I didn't keep my mouth shut and escalated the fight.
2. I left instead of going inside and waiting for legal sobriety.

Only two mistakes.

Mistake number one was illegal, stupid, and potentially deadly.

So was mistake number two.

Worst part is, you're determined not to learn anything from the encounter. That's a shame.

pax

A committment to avoidance, deescalation and deterrence is your number one option for personal security. -- Andy Stanford

 

[Biker]

Just because it's legal don't make it right, and just because it's illegal don't make it wrong. Can you argue with that statement?
Biker

 

[DavidAk311]

What Biker said.

 

[odysseus]

Just because it's legal don't make it right, and just because it's illegal don't make it wrong.

That's true.

However what exactly are you addressing specifically? That driving DUI is ok even though it is illegal?

Is that what you wanted to be quoted on?

 

[Biker]

Just a generality. For example, although I don't know for sure, I suspect that drinking three beers makes me legally impaired. However, that's not even close to true. Another example: If a man grabs my wife's ass, I reserve the right to break his jaw. Illegal? Yup. But it's the right thing to do, IMO, and I'll break that law. If I witness a man abusing a woman, child or animal, I will probably intervine and apply force accordingly and likely break a law. No regrets, no apologies.
Biker

 

[Ivy Mike]

You have a moral obligation not to harm an innocent person, nor to recklessly endanger that person.

If you don't have that most basic of moral obligations, then you have no morals at all.

YOU may have that moral obligation.
I have no obligation to do so. I try to avoid doing it, but not at the risk of my own health and safety.
This goes back to a multi-page thread about whether or not you would defend somebody else in an armed conflict.

MANY people said no as they have no obligation to do so.
If you claim that a person has an obligation not to harm people, then I would argue that as you have the power to prevent harm, you are now obligated to do so.

The simple truth is that morals and ethics are completely subjective. I set my own morals and pity anyone who doesn't do the same.

My first moral is preservation of self.
Second is preservation of family and friends.
Third is preservation of all other rights.

 

[Ivy Mike]

Biker, I think it is safe to say that some laws are FAR too easy to break.

That tends to happen when a legal definition and common sense part ways.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

You have a moral obligation not to harm an innocent person, nor to recklessly endanger that person.

YOU may have that moral obligation.
I have no obligation to do so.

Then you don't belong on the roads. I wish I could turn you in myself.

Like HELL you don't have an obligation not to kill someone through your bad judgement compounded with more bad judgement.

You CHOSE to open your big yap when some idiot started talking smack.

You PUT yourself in the situation where you had to choose drunk driving over sticking around, walking back to the bar, or a number of other possible choices.

There was a drunk, injured, angry man who had just been placed in that state by myself. He had a car.

Unfettered bullcrap. He thought Mike's car was his. How fast do you think he could have found his ACTUAL car?

I am sickened by your posts. You've shown by your words that you are not responsible enough to drive, to drink, or to carry a firearm.

 

[Ivy Mike]

Then you don't belong on the roads. I wish I could turn you in myself.

Like HELL you don't have an obligation not to kill someone through your bad judgement compounded with more bad judgement.

You CHOSE to open your big yap when some idiot started talking smack.

You PUT yourself in the situation where you had to choose drunk driving over sticking around, walking back to the bar, or a number of other possible choices.

I said I have no moral obligation...I stated SEVERAL times that I have a legal obligation. Laws != morals
You'll notice that I listed my smart mouth as a mistake. Did you not read the first post?
Yes, I played a part in placing myself in a bad situation. I also listed leaving instead of going inside to sober up among my mistakes. Again, check your reading comprehension before flaming me.

Unfettered bullcrap. He thought Mike's car was his. How fast do you think he could have found his ACTUAL car?

I am sickened by your posts. You've shown by your words that you are not responsible enough to drive, to drink, or to carry a firearm.

Do you want to risk your life on his ability to find his car? I certainlly didn't. I already said I should have gone back inside.
I'll listen to the state's judgement on my ability to carry a drivers license or concealed weapon before yours. I'll not risk my life based on your set of morals and values. Feel free to critique my behavior, but never for one second think that your words matter to me.
I've been big enough to admit my mistakes.

 

[buzz_knox]

I'll listen to the state's judgement on my ability to carry a drivers license or concealed weapon before yours. I'll not risk my life based on your set of morals and values.

I doubt if you've discussed your lack of morals with the state. You have disclosed them to us. You've also stated an intent to commit DUI. We're probably in a far better position to evaluate you than the state.

This should be stickied in the buying forums. A person under no moral obligation not to hurt someone else is probably not a good person to do business with.

 

[Ivy Mike]

The state doesn't care about morals.
My lack of a criminal record is sufficient. I wouldn't want to live in a state that can deny rights simply based on morals or thoughts. 1984 much?

You say no moral obligation like its a bad thing.
NOBODY has a moral obligation to anyone UNLESS you choose to. The only obligation you truly have, is a legal one.

 

[Mr.BadExample]

I think DT Guy said it best.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

I said I have no moral obligation...I stated SEVERAL times that I have a legal obligation. Laws != morals

I wasn't commenting on your legal obligation. I was commenting on your lack of ethical judgement.

Since you have only a legal obligation, and you have no moral obligation, might I surmise that you have no moral obligation to follow the law? And that your only calculation is whether or not you are likely to get caught?

There are such things as right and wrong. Fooolishly endangering others due to your machismo and drunken judgement is bad enough.

Lecturing us about how you have no moral obligation not to kill others is, quite simply, sick.

If you're not pulling our legs, I think you should go find yourself an island: If you can't agree to basic ethical principles like, "Don't kill people," there is no place for you in any society.

Again, check your reading comprehension before flaming me.

I understand that you admitted tactical mistakes. Tactics serve you alone. You never said anything about feeling bad about endangering others; on the contrary, you proudly state that you don't HAVE to feel bad about it.

 

[Ivy Mike]

I'm glad you understand what I'm saying.