Treadwell's death and body recovery - a live-action account

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I had seen early footage of Treadwell on Animal Planet or another cable channel and concluded he was another Victim of Disney, believing that all animals were just big fuzzy pets inside, needing merely to be awakened by our love. In short, an idiot. The cable science-and-nature channels run about 50/50 on annoying me but he was way off the scale.

An hour's drive from where I live, there is a private facility that cares for former "pet" big cats, mostly lions and tigers, that have outgrown the equally Disneyfied types who thought to make pets of them. The folks who run it are quite fond of big cats but aren't under any illusions about them being oversized housecats. They're open to the public but very un-zoo-like: between you and the cats is nothing but a sturdy chain-link fence, 20' high and with telephone poles for fence poles, along with your own good sense. The guides caution vistors to not get too close. These cats were raised by people, many of them in people's homes and are very comfortable humans; many lay right up against the fence, or pace you as you walk by, and the tigers will "chuff" in greeting.

But they're very aware that we're made of meat. They're not pet kitties; even the keepers are careful to avoid giving them a chance for a taste. They get regular meals of roadkill and the like, so mostly, they think the humans are more interesting than tasty. Mostly.

Walking by one enclosure, it looked empty, nothing but typical midwestern weeds a couple feet high inside the fence. My husband was a ways behind me. As I passed, behind me, an enormous tiger appeared from the weeds, watching.... How does an orange and black cat as long as a small car hide in a couple of feet of green underbrush? Very well!*

Big predators are beautiful to look at and must be a challenge to hunt, but only an idiot tries to make pets out of 'em. They are happy to eat things about our size, most of which are faster than humans. And while they can be quite clever, they're not thinking very many meals ahead. You're tasty now!

The degree of self-deception that allows people to think they can just play around with such animals stuns me.

...And I may have to rethink visiting Alaska. Tigers on the other side of even a nominal fence are one thing. Bears face to face is another!

--Herself
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* The cats are kept in groups, one bunch per enclosure. In each enclosure is a large cattle-watering tank filled with water and in every enclosure with tigers in it, there really was a "tiger in the tank." Unlike the gas-commercial image, they looked anything but fast and energetic. Most of the tanked tigers were dozing!
 
I definitely need to check out the documentary.
Was there any mention of any odd theories about bear behavior, I seem to recall hearing that Treadwell thought that he knew more about bears than bear experts and I would imagine that helped lead to his demise.

I recently read into the wild, and I learned a few important things that I think are relevant here:
1. Do not gamble against nature even if you win a few hands you will eventually lose.
2. If you decide to play at being part of nature then don't be surprised if it moves quickly out of your comfort zone...and it may be too late to do anything about it but die.
3. Alaska can be a tough place. If you wonder if it is tougher than you can handle, it more than likely is.
 
Basically, all bears are somewhat interested in eating you, and a bear's only friend is another bear. You try to make friends with a bear, it's the bear equivalent of a Burger King commercial. Polarfleece and meat and Gore Tex and meat and cheese and Tectron and meat... I recall being on a rafting trip in Alaska where we split up to do hikes, and seeing a big one trailing a hiking party up an adjacent ridge.
Are 12 Gauge rifled slugs really the answer to this kind of situation? About 10 years back I had my eye on a pre '64 Winchester 70 in .375 H&H, but a guy who was moving to Alaska snatched it out from under me. Since then, I note the sales of .45-70 and .480 lever guns, and things like the 1895 Winchester .405 reissue... 12 Gauge rifled slugs seem to be what people carry when they figure there's not going to be a problem, but then there is; What bearhunters carry when they're not hunting bear, if you will.
 
Treadwell was a complete idiot.

He made extremely bad decisions, dragged his GF into it, got himself and her both killed and is lionized by other idiots who don't know any more about the real world than he did. Oh, and the bears he supposedly cared for so much? Dead. Because of him. Him and others like him give anyone who actually cares and knows about the few wild places left a bad name. Let me reitterate. He was a jackass.
 
Missing the most likely reason for attack.

You guys and gals offering possible reasons for the attack have missed the single most likely reason the bear(s) attacked the couple.

But first, I must say that I only wish more tree huggers would go out and camp with the bears. Or do similarly stupid things. Talk about just desserts for some kooks out of touch with the real world. Just because you saw a show on the Discovery Channel about "living with bears" doesn't make you an expert.

Enough with the digression.

The most likely reason the bear(s) suddenly turned on Mr. Fedwell and his girlfriend would be the onset of the girlfriend's menstrual period. Bears and other animals can smell that a mile away (pun intended).

Several knowledgeable folks I've spoken with on this all came to the same conclusion, independently: the girl got her period and Mr. Bruin smelled it and got all weird because she was in heat.

Guys: never take your loved ones of the fairer sex out in the wilds with predatory animals if they MIGHT even get their period. Same applies for swimming in the ocean. There's no reason to effectively tie a proverbial pork-chop around your loved-one's neck when it comes to predators.

Even if you're armed and prepared (or think you're prepared), the best way to win a gun battle is to avoid it!

John

** Edit to spell 'menstrual' correctly!
 
Treadwell

There was a thing on the news when he was found dead about his life with the bears,and how he would come back to the lower 48 and give talks at schools about his life with them and how "gentil" they could be. The people living in that area he stayed always told him to be careful and that ypou can't trust the bears. Some people refuse to take advice from those that know.
 
i can't get overly worked up about this. i don't know that the guy was oblivious. more likely, he was just taking a calculated risk. playing the odds. and maybe he was semi-suicidal... tempting fate on purpose. who knows? who cares? afaik, he's no different than siegfried/roy whatever. live by the sword, die by the sword. if you make your living sticking your head in tigers' mouths... well, what can I say?


btw, biker, did you hear about the new harleys being gas/electric hybrids?
 
btw, biker, did you hear about the new harleys being gas/electric hybrids?[/QUOTE]

??? News to me!
:confused:
Biker
 
Templar223 said:
The most likely reason the bear(s) suddenly turned on Mr. Fedwell and his girlfriend would be the onset of the girlfriend's menstrual period. Bears and other animals can smell that a mile away (pun intended).

Several knowledgeable folks I've spoken with on this all came to the same conclusion, independently: the girl got her period and Mr. Bruin smelled it and got all weird because she was in heat.

Actually, Herrera and Kaniut both point out in their books that the actual studies of bear attacks (which is admittedly a small enough sample to make statistics dicey) show no correlation between menstruation and bear attacks.

It's kind of a wilderness myth.
 
Misguided dream

I did see the DVD, Grizzly Man last night and found it disturbing. This man, Timothy Treadwell, was obviously mentally ill to get so close to wild bears. So many in this world if not all of us in some way or another somewhat mad as well, just watch the news every night. It was a tragedy in all respects and very sad. What really makes me wonder though, is the incredible lack of compassion for this individual and his girlfriend. Were they wrong to be there, of course! I personally feel sad that his mental illness took him down this path and an unfortunate innocent as well.

Perhaps if we cared a little more for those that are struggling with inner termoil and sadness, we would have fewer tragic stories to write about.
 
ronaford said:
I did see the DVD, Grizzly Man last night and found it disturbing. This man, Timothy Treadwell, was obviously mentally ill to get so close to wild bears. So many in this world if not all of us in some way or another somewhat mad as well, just watch the news every night. It was a tragedy in all respects and very sad. What really makes me wonder though, is the incredible lack of compassion for this individual and his girlfriend. Were they wrong to be there, of course! I personally feel sad that his mental illness took him down this path and an unfortunate innocent as well.

Perhaps if we cared a little more for those that are struggling with inner termoil and sadness, we would have fewer tragic stories to write about

The most important things in life cannot be seen or heard, but must be felt with the heart. Helen Keller.
 
The most important things in life cannot be seen or heard, but must be felt with the heart. Helen Keller.
I don't mean to disrespect the accomplishments of Ms Keller, but she is hardly an unbiased source or an authority on the matter
 
carebear said:
Mike,

They weren't going in expecting to practice small unit tactics against insurgents, they were investigating a bear attack. Bear attacks involving predation from coastal browns are fairly uncommon, as is stalking behaviour. Typically they'll move off once they figure out you're a human, with the amount of activity they were kicking up there shouldn't have been a bear left within an acre.

In any event, I'm not sure if you are really familiar with the terrain and flora up here. Your perimeter is about as far as you can see, the "wall of green" is absolute at the edge of whatever clearing you are in. From the "trails" (not maintained old-growth lower 48 stuff, actual bear trails not more than a foot wide) you can literally see about arms length into the brush.

It's a whole nother world out there and the bears are like ghosts moving through it when they want to be.


First of all, bear attacks in Alaska are uncommon. So saying that bear attacks involving predation are rare as is stalking isn't saying a whole bunch. Currently, there are only about 500 documented cases where bears attacked humans in the last 100 years in Alaska. http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/attacks/bear-human_conflicts.htm

On top of this, saying that the behavior is uncommon in coastal areas is interesting as it suggests such attacks are more common inland (for not specifified reason). As it turns out, most bear attacks Alaska are in coastal areas.

This fascination of stalking behavior of bears of humans is out of place. Ellis said he felt like the bear was stalking them and that sounds realy nefarious, but in reality, the bear could simply have been keeping tabs on his kills and making sure other humans don't make off with his food.

As noted, bears are predators and many predators stalk. It is strange that humans tend to believe that there is something out of kilter when an animal attacks a human. Humans are not above being attacked. There is nothing in nature that makes humans biologically a poor form of prey.

Sindawe said:
I have to wonder if the stalking behavior and predation is a recently learned/thunk up pattern by the bears, as a response to more people in the area.

Stalking and predation are not new learned behaviors of the bears, although bear attacks have gone up in number as the human population in Alaska has increased.

Templar223 said:
You guys and gals offering possible reasons for the attack have missed the single most likely reason the bear(s) attacked the couple.

The most likely reason the bear(s) suddenly turned on Mr. Fedwell and his girlfriend would be the onset of the girlfriend's menstrual period. Bears and other animals can smell that a mile away (pun intended).

So you have insight to justify the attack because Treadwell's girlfriend was on her period? As noted, the whole bear attack and menstrual cycle thing is a wilderness myth. See http://www.mum.org/Odor.htm

This all amazes me. So because humans are unique and that bears don't typically attack humans or eat them, then we need to make up some sort of far-fetched explanation to explain with Treadwell and his girlfriend were attacked.

If you want to talk about obvious factors, consider that Treadwell apparently used to keep his food supplies in a tent next to his own sleeping tent (http://www.katmaibears.com/timothytreadwell3.htm)

Their camp was located along trails used by game including bears. http://www.adn.com/front/story/4127139p-4142019c.html

As it turns out, he camped at the location for the express purpose of encountering bears as they used the trail and going about their business.

----

I have no doubt that Treadwell probably understood bears better than most biologists, in part due to his prolonged time spent with the bears. Somewhere along the way, he lost sight of the fact that bears don't all act in the same manners all the time. No doubt that what he understood probably included most normal bear behavior from bears who had become accustomed to him. Encountering a bear that did not know him, was stressed, sick, old, surprised, hungry, territorial, or whatever and all of his bear knowledge would have been for naught.
 
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