Treadwell's death and body recovery - a live-action account

[carebear]

I have no illusions about the danger of grizzly bears. It was very stupid what Treadwell did. However, at no point will I be glad that it happened or say that he deserved it. I do agree that Treadwell wanted to be a 'rockstar', as his friends put it, and that his filming was more of a confidence booster for himself then a will to save anything.

Think of the fear that would be running through you as your being eaten alive by a grizzly. I don't see how anyone can find humor in that.

-Dev

If I were being eaten by a grizzly it would be because, despite me doing all the RIGHT things and being armed, the bear and fate conspired against me. It will not be an ironic finish to a spectacularly stupid series of self-righteously ignorent actions on my part that end in a burst of hypocrisy. And I won't be dragging an innocent party into the mix by representing I alone know what i'm doing in the woods.

Again, I bet those monks weren't enjoying the flames.

 

[molonlabe]

While I don’t see many of these post disrespectful, I call it as I see it. He was mentally ill and untreated, He spread misinformation to school children, Violated the laws regarding campers behavior in a wilderness setting and I think he should have been jailed before he committed murder by dragging a clueless woman who appears to be highly educated in medicine off to her death. Dis-respectful? I think most people are showing a lot of restraint regarding this Ex. nut job.

 

[Tory]

That's show biz!

Fortunately for us, very, very few have our stupidity self-recorded in such detail over so long a period of time - and then publicized through our own self-promotion.

When such a fiaso DOES occur, public comment is both inevitable and deserved.

 

[Lupinus]

I feal neither sadness or joy about him being dead, just like a suicide victem who has tried and failed multiple times and then one day finally gets it done and is dead.

Not joyful, being a simple tree hugging nutjob doesn't put you onto my list of people I'd be happy to see dead. But I will say he got what was coming to him.

Not sadness, because agian he got what he was asking for, like a suicide victem who had made multiple attempts.

I do feel at some level though the girl who was dragged into it. Though on the same note he didn't put a gun to her head, I'm sure at some level he is guilty of making her do it through some serious convincing and misinforming.

I do find one thing kind of ironic in all this though. He is on screen worshipping bear poop, then he became bear poop.

 

[gulogulo1970]

He didn't get what he deserved, he got what any sane person would expect to happen when you play with bears.

Calling out a fool is not a low blow. In fact thoughout human history pointing out foolishness teaches others what not to do, especially when the foolish actions kill the fool.

For example, when teens dodge trains it is a brave thing to do but still stupid. When one of them dies doing it, we don't have to bow down to the idiots bravery. We do need to note his lack of wisdom and convey it to others and our children.

Moral of the story, don't play with bears or you might get eaten.

 

[Cosmoline]

Treadwell really was trying to do something noble he was just completely lost.

When did it become "noble" to acclimate bears to humans and harass them? This jerk spent years and years telling as many people as he could find in the lower 48 that we were a bunch of poachers up here, and without his "protection" these bears would be dead. He LIED and he MADE MONEY DOING IT. He got to go on TV and got to meet famous movie stars. He even got big checks from some of them.

He deserved EXACTLY what he got. I do feel sorry for the bears, though.

 

[strambo]

before he committed murder by dragging a clueless woman

Umm..I just watched "Grizzly Man" last night, great film. As his friends said, the girl was no girl, but a 37 year old woman. An avid and experienced outdoorsman. She knew what she was getting into and was fully capable of making her own decisions. They were at the airport when he got mad at an employee and decided to go back to the island. She just could have left then (and wanted to to go back to her job). An adult making their own choices does not constitute murder on behalf of the other adult present. Yes, that guy unfortunately had some mental problems and an extremely naive view of nature.

He reminded me of a lot of people who live in the world as they think it is, instead of the world as it really is. His statement about how living with Bears is extremely dangerous and if he ever makes a mistake they will kill him was telling. He thought he could do the right things, behave in the right way (it was up to him) and avoid that outcome.

It never was up to him, he never had the power. The bears always had and retained the power over life and death on that island as far as he was concerned. It is like someone saying "if you give the criminal what he wants he will not hurt you." He may, or may not, hurt you at HIS discretion irregardless of what you do....the criminal has all the power unless you live in the real world and take steps to protect yourself. If he would have treated the bears like any other wildlife biologist, he (and the bear that killed him) would still be here.

My quirky BIL summed this film up best "There is a lot of mental illness in Alaska." -Heh, I've lived in Fairbanks, he ain't kiddin'.

 

[Cosmoline]

Not a single bear was killed in the 13 summers he spent in the bay. The year after his death alone there were 6 (possibly more) dead bears found to be killed by poaching. The bears were in fact in danger and as far as I'm concerned he did save some bears. I'm not saying Treadwell was right or that I would have done what he did. I'm saying he DID save bears (aside from the one that ate him) and he actually DID make a difference.

Ah, the challenges of Alaska geography. I suggest you GET A MAP before you presume to lecture us. The allegedly poached bears were found on the OTHER SIDE OF A MOUNTAIN RANGE from Treadwell's little sanctuary. On a tributary of Lake Iliamna. He never went there. The area he "protected" is right on the coast within easy viewing range of any VFR flight using the coastline for navigation. In fact it wasn't unusual for pilots to fly down to try to assist Treadwell when they saw him waving flares around. They assumed he was in trouble, but were surprised to find him screaming at them and chasing them off when they arrived to render aid. He claimed he was "chasing off poachers."

I've been reading about this guy for years now. The more I learn, the less sympathy I have for him. He was the kind of crazy that gets thousands of dollars from Leo DiCaprio and gets to talk to Letterman. He wanted to spin the whole thing off into a sort of lucrative combination of Jane Godall and that crocodile idiot.

 

[Cosmoline]

Think of the fear that would be running through you as your being eaten alive by a grizzly. I don't see how anyone can find humor in that.

I don't find humor in it. The whole thing makes me mad. The park service should have kicked him out long ago, but I guess they didn't want to take the political heat for doing it. If he'd pulled this garbage on state land he would have been up on wildlife harassment charges post haste. In fact, a hatred for the idiots at the NPS is the one thing I would have agreed with Timmy boy about. But I think we dislike them for very different reasons.

 

[trickyasafox]

its always a bit sad when someone dies so violently, but to say that the guy wasnt playing with matches would be an understatement.

 

[bobhaverford]

This fellow WAS certifiable. I just finished watching Grizzly Man and he had to be one of the most self-satisfied, hubristic ignoramuses I've actually personally witnessed other than possibly AlGore, Jimmah Carter and John Kerry.

 

[justashooter]

just watched grizzly man, and have to say that treadwell was one of the most flambouyant, histrionic, egocentric nutcases i have ever seen. the bears were his, and he was their master (in his mind).

truly magical thinking, diagnosably psychotic.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

since I have posted my NSH opinions on this before....

I watched Grizzly Man on Discovery Channel last night and
taped it, and the commentary section that followed, skipping
commercials; translation: I watched every minute alert.

I had hoped my first impressions from the popular press,
news, movie reviews and internet accounts were wrong.
Treadwell's own words and acts just re-enforce my first
impressions.

Like a lot of recovered addicts and similar personalities,
Treadwell siezed on a capital-c Cause to give meaning to
his life. It could have been worse, he could have become a
Unabomber. It coulda been better. Treadwell's crusade was
all about Treadwell THE ONLY PROTECTOR OF THE BEARS!!!!!

Threadwell's friends give me the impression that the fact
they found him personally charming and politically correct
puts his behavior above criticism. I think they are in denial
and too subjective. We all benefit from stepping back from
the trees and looking at the forest objectively.

I looked in the face of the bear that Treadwell treated as
a buddy and it was like looking into a Nietzschean abyss.
Treadwell in his self righteous idealism humanised bears and
demonized humans. Bears are like tornados or avalanches:
awesome but lethal natural phenomena outside human concepts
of good or evil.

He did not "get what he deserved" but "he brought it on
himself" by being so out of touch with the reality of nature
and the nature of bears that he put himself and his girl
friend in harm's way.

I got the impression after she spendt a little time with him
and his bear buddies, she realized the situation better than
he did. By then she had no way out but the return of the
bush pilot.

By him being such a eccentric, many people introduced to the
subject by "Grizzly Man" will find it hard to take animal
protection seriously. Worse, he may inspire copycat bear
huggers to the detriment of people and bears alike.

In the account by Nick Jans originally cited by Preacherman,
the bear encountered by bush pilot Willy Fulton and the
park rangers had no fear of humans and had discovered they
are easy prey, thanks to Treadwell. The guide who threw rocks
at the bear was actually doing the bear a kindness if it
taught the bear to keep its distance from people.

----------------------added today,
DevLcL, "gallows humor" in response to mind-boggling
situations is a common human reaction.

 

[beaucoup ammo]

Preacherman

Wow, hell of a compelling tale. I truely couldn't stop reading once I got into the piece..Can't understand why this guy, Treadwell, with all his history and experience among these WILD PREDATORS could be so off guard as to allow this tragedy to take place. "Wild", IMO, is the operative word. That spells unpredictable...and demands caution.

It's very sad but, Good Lord, Grizzly bears are the most powerful and deadly of the browns. Did he think his continued presence among them would give him immunity from being attacked..and his lady friend?

Human nature being what it is, I found it fascinating..yet very sad and difficult to understand.

Thanks..Take Care

 

[Cosmoline]

He never saw a grizzly bear in his life. The bear he was hanging out with were all coastal Alaskan brown bears during the salmon run.

 

[strambo]

The fox family was really cute. He should have studied and protected the fox in "fox country" instead of bears in "bear country."

I like how he selectively liked some animals and not others. He didn't care too much for the wolves who killed one of the fox. If he would have chosen wolves to get to know and protect his POV would have been totally different. He didn't care about what the bears ate either. Poor salmon. I guess the world isn't really like The Lion King.

 

[M-Rex]

The fox family was really cute. He should have studied and protected the fox in "fox country" instead of bears in "bear country."

I like how he selectively liked some animals and not others. He didn't care too much for the wolves who killed one of the fox. If he would have chosen wolves to get to know and protect his POV would have been totally different. He didn't care about what the bears ate either. Poor salmon. I guess the world isn't really like The Lion King.

I think that's because 'Salmon Man' doesn't sound nearly as cool as 'Grizzly Man'.

 

[BigFatKen]

buffalo too, in Yellowstone

I read a number of years ago, when video camers were still expensive, that some guy wanted to tape a buffalo runing. They were all laying down. So, to get his money's worth, he got out of his car and kicked the "docile" animal to get it to move. Last thing he ever did.

 

[Satch]

Treadwell

This reminds me of a story about a year ago about a "tree Hugger" who climbed a redwood in a California forest to keep it from being harvested. He was talked into coming down and on the way slipped and fell to his death.The odd thing was the tree didn't try to catch him.

 

[JesseJames]

This reminds me of a story about a year ago about a "tree Hugger" who climbed a redwood in a California forest to keep it from being harvested. He was talked into coming down and on the way slipped and fell to his death.The odd thing was the tree didn't try to catch him.

LOL

Gotta love those deluded hippie types. Their behavior is at least worth a chuckle now and then.

 

[MillCreek]

He never saw a grizzly bear in his life. The bear he was hanging out with were all coastal Alaskan brown bears during the salmon run.

Here in the North Cascades, we have only the occasional black bear from time to time, and I have only seen this type of bear. Having only been to Alaska for business meetings, my knowledge as to Alaskan bears is regrettably limited. So were all the bears that we saw in that movie brown bears? And do grizzly bears actually inhabit that same area? And come to think of it, just how many different types of bears can be found in Alaska? Pardon my numerous questions, but I am genuinely curious about this.

 

[Dr.Rob]

(from Alaska Fish & Game)

Browns and Grizzlies are the same animal, not a different species.General description: Formerly, taxonomists listed brown and grizzly bears as separate species. Technically, brown and grizzly bears are classified as the same species, Ursus arctos. Brown bears on Kodiak Island are classified as a distinct subspecies from those on the mainland because they are genetically and physically isolated. The shape of their skulls also differs slightly.

The term “brown bear” is commonly used to refer to the members of this species found in coastal areas where salmon is the primary food source. Brown bears found inland and in northern habitats are often called “grizzlies.”

 

[IndianaDean]

(from Alaska Fish & Game)

Browns and Grizzlies are the same animal, ”

Hmmm, I've known that for years. I did not realize there was debate about it.

I don't have much sympathy for Treadwell, sorry. He was an idiot. I feel more sorry for his girlfriend losing her life falling for his stupidity.

I had not heard about him being killed when I saw promos for the movie over the weekend. However my first thought was "What a moron, it would serve him right if the bears eat him." Maybe that's wrong, but that's what I thought. When I heard they had, I was not surprised, nor sympathetic.

I deplore the loss of human life, except when it's due to stupidity.

 

[carebear]

The browns, when the salmon are running, tend to be fat, dumb and happy which helps explain why Treadwell lasted as long as he did. His risk went way up during the drought he documents but apparently the bears found cubs easier and more "natural" meals.

Coastal brownies will outweigh the inland Griz by several hundred pounds due to the greater availability of food and milder climate extremes so inland griz, especially the barren grounders, tend to be more aggressive since they have to work harder for food. They'll dig a 10 foot hole just to get at a plump ground squirrel.

Salmon during the runs are neatly packaged fat and protein bars swimming by in the tens of thousands so the Coastals, once they establish a pecking order, just stick by their holes and eat.

It was the fact he stayed late, when the presumably smaller/older/weaker or inland bears came down to glean the scraps that even he was aware put him at greater risk (he mentioned the new bears were "scarier").

 

[Cosmoline]

So were all the bears that we saw in that movie brown bears? And do grizzly bears actually inhabit that same area? And come to think of it, just how many different types of bears can be found in Alaska? Pardon my numerous questions, but I am genuinely curious about this.

The bears all along Alaska's gulf coast and in the islands are generally classified as coastal brown bear. Bear genetics are pretty odd, and allow for vast physical differences within the same species. The true Ursus arctos horribilis--the grizzer--lives in the interior and western parts of the state and down into Canada and certain northern states. The grizzly bear are smaller and have a pretty well deserved reputation of being much meaner than their larger salmon-fed siblings. They have to roam further to get food and hibernate longer. I've read documented accounts of a griz boar charging and driving off one group after another of folks just drifting down the Yukon, forcing them to leap out of their boats. The same bear was later seen by a flying plane, JUMPING UP AND DOWN on the destroyed remains of the drift boats in an extended display of absolute rage. You rarely see that sort of thing from the larger coastal brown bear. The only time I've seen them, they've been running off. Which is fine by me. Sometimes they kill, of course, but that's not typical. An actual predation like Treadwell's is extremely rare. Which makes sense. Salmon just taste a lot better than people. They have so much food when the runs start it wouldn't be to their benefit to be overly aggressive with each other, so a sort of salmon truce seems to develop. You leave me alone, and I'll leave you alone. Treadwell confused this for pack dynamics, but it's nowhere near that complicated.

I worry more about the little black bear around town here and in Chugach. I've nearly tripped over them on the trail before, and they sometimes show a disturbing tendency to not run off. They wouldn't turn down a little manflesh if it looked easy to get. After all, they can't start snatching salmon without risking becoming a meal of a brown bear. So they're not quite as picky about what they eat. And their eyes just seem smarter than the big brown guys.

Here's an interesting piece about scrappy little griz running off polar bear from whale carcasses:

http://www.adn.com/front/story/6415667p-6294323c.html

Despite the odor from rotting bowhead and the sound of chomping jaws, the midnight scene at the bone dump along the Arctic Ocean was remarkably peaceful. Recorded as part of a three-year study of polar bear feeding behavior, it showed that these predators were willing to share discarded remains with each other, said federal biologist Susi Miller.

But then the majestic rulers of Beaufort Sea ice met their match: a scrappy tundra grizzly.

As Miller and a colleague watched from the cab of a pickup, a small brown bear sow emerged from the darkness and ambled up the spit, trailed by two yearling cubs. Without hesitation, the grizzly lunged at the first polar bear, huffing and snarling, driving it into the lagoon. Soon the second, third and fourth polar bears had joined it, leaving the food to a gnarly little bruin about one-third their size.