Trigger Job on 1911 45 Bullseye Pistol

[hammer]

I am about to perform work on my hammer and sear. I bought a Marvel sear jig, Bob Marvel hammer and sear jig, and Brownell's stones.

1. How can I determine the present height of the hammer hooks? I have feeler gauges but when I lay one on top of the hammer flats I cannot determine if it is the correct height.

2. When using the Bob Marvel hammer and sear jig to perform work on the hammer how close should the top bar/stone guide be to the hammer hooks? Should it be right up against the hammer hooks with the stone on top or should I move it back a bit?

3. Should I try to leave a (.020) feeler gauge on top of the hammer flats when stoning it in the jig? If so, how do I hold it in place? If I do not leave the feeler gauge in place, how many passes of the stone should be made prior to re-measuring?

I am sure that I will hve more questions.

I have read the older posts on the hammer and sear and I will continue to study them as I progress with this project.

Your help is appreciated!

 

[Sunray]

You're getting far too complicated. A trigger job on a .45 doesn't require jigs, stones, etc. Don't even think about any file. Fitting new parts is another thing entirely.
Remove the hammer and sear. Polish out any tool marks with jeweller's rouge and a buffing wheel on both mating parts. No metal removal, just polish until the tool marks are gone. Polish the aft end and sides of the trigger too. Polishing doesn't change any angles.
Then either change the springs or clip off 1/4 turn of the mainspring. Changing the springs is better. Less guess work invloved. Mind you, changing the springs alone will improve a trigger.

 

[Old Fuff]

hammer:

Look into this currently running thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=166141

I take it that you haven't done trigger-pull work in the past. If so I would strongly suggest that you go to Numrich/Gunparts Corporation at (www.e-gunparts.com) and buy some of their relatively inexpensive investment cast hammers and sears. These are a long way from being top-quality parts, but they are ideal to practice and learn on. Then after you have a much better understanding of what does or doesn't work go ahead and fit the quality parts your pistol deserves.

It seems to me that just about anyone thinks that adjusting trigger pulls is a snap. This is a long way from true, and mistakes can end up leaving the pistol in a dangerous condition. This is especially true if you try to drop the weight below 5 pounds in general, and 4 pounds in particular.

I can understand your desire to have a lighter pull on your target pistol, but frankly you'd be better off sending the pistol to a pistolsmith with a bullseye gun speciality. You may (or may not) have the necessary tools, but experience is a critical component too.

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Quote:

>Then either change the springs or clip off 1/4 turn of the mainspring.
****************************

Better step back and re-think that one a little, too...

 

[hammer]

BE TriggerJob

I have a top notch Bullseye gun - a Mike Curtis. Mike went to work for the government so he is not available to work on his pistols. It came with a 3 1/2 lb trigger. Reducing the trigger pull is not my goal as I want a BE legal pistol - 3 1/2 lbs. After shooting the pistol approx 30,000 rounds it started to double; the sear appeared rounded off. I sent it to a BE gusmith and it was returned to me with the worst trigger job I had ever encountered. I sent it back to the smith agian; I received it back with the hammer, sear, disconnector gobbed up with grease. I guess I was supposed to say "wow, you really improved your work". By now, I've got well over $100 in shipping fees plus what I paid the smith to merely install parts. The hammer hooks were .024. That says to me that he did nothing to the hammer at all. This is the 2nd time that I have been worked over by a smith. The 1st time I had him (another smith) build me a complete 45 and then he sc___ed up his own gun! I returned it to him 4 times. This is why I want to learn to do my own trigger jobs. If I win the lottery I will pay Mike Curtis to take some vacation time and build me a few BE pistols. Mike is a GREAT person - very honorable.

 

[1911Tuner]

Trigger

Like my pappy used to say:

"There's two kinds of people who get into a watch. One is a watchmaker. The other is a fool."

Sounds like the guy who screwed the pooch on your trigger work fits the second category.

Doing your own trigger work isn't all that hard to do, but you need to completely understand it before starting. Take Fuff's suggestion and get some cheap parts to practice on first, and if you have another pistol to practice with, that isn't a bad idea either. Experience helps a lot...especially the experience in making mistakes and figuring out what you did wrong. A little instruction from a really good trigger man is also helpful. I'm not one of those. My trigger work is generally limited to cleaning up an existing trigger and making it smoother and cleaner on the break. Bringin'em down to 3.5 pounds isn't a place that I go.

You might try contacting Chuck Rogers via his website. He's one of the better trigger men around and is generally helpful in explaining things.
He's also a registered member here. If a search on the name doesn't find him, try Rogersprecision. Or...yoiu can send it to him. Don't know what his backlog is like, though. Might involve a long wait.

 

[Old Fuff]

Good bullseye pistolsmiths are harder to find then hen’s teeth, partly because most of the money seems to be in tactical and combat guns (at least so-called).

Chuck Rogers is an exception, as he works both sides of the street and builds both. So do Jimmy Clark’s sons in Louisiana – unless they got blown away or flooded out.

A reliable, consistent 3 ½ pound trigger pull isn’t easy, and it involvers a lot more then just the hammer and sear. The ones who do it right professionally are expensive, and worth every penny. So far as I’m personally concerned I won’t go below 4 pounds, for the same reasons that Tuner doesn’t.

Back during the dark ages of the middle 20th century I was an active bullseye shooter – active enough to be a member of my state’s team. Of course I wanted the lightest possible trigger pull that was still inside the rules on all of my guns. I endlessly pestered pistolsmiths to take um’ down another ounce or two.

One day while at the National Matches at Camp Perry I got into a bull session with a group of top military shooters – the kind that would regularly win national honors and usually represent the United States in international championships. At one point the conversation turned to trigger pulls. I proudly showed off one of my pistols that had a pull that was dead-on so far as weight was concerned.

“Not good,” I was told, “for a number of reasons.” Not good!! I almost had a stroke. “No,” they said in full agreement. “If it drops an ounce or two and is checked you’ll be disqualified, and shooting a 3-gun tournament with different guns with different trigger pulls will cost you points over the entire aggregate, not make them.” “What you will end up doing is concentrating on the pull, not on the sight picture like you should. If you are watching those sights and holding pattern like you should you won’t notice the trigger pull and will have a surprise break which counters flinching.”

“You can master a heavier trigger pull, (a point they proved during the National Trophy Match when they had to shoot hardball in pistols that had 4 pound + trigger pulls and still stayed in the high 280’s and low-middle 290’s) but what it takes is a lot of “full concentration” dry firing.” That was another mark of these champions – they did a LOT of dry firing, and paid attention while they were doing it.

So anyway, this may (or may not) give you something to think about. I’m sorry about your previous experience, and wish you better luck.

Edited to add: Never use oil or grease on the internal parts of a match gun - particularly the contact points between the hammer hooks and sear. This may (or may not) make the pull feel lighter, but it will also make it inconsistant and may cause the hammer to follow down. A good 'smith will adjust these parts to work dry on purpose. Lubricants may very. Dry is uniform and consistant.