Trouble with neck sizing

[claphoto]

I consider myself a fairly experienced handloader with quite a few thousand rounds through my various tubes. I have a .308 Savage model 10 that has proven worthy of further accuracy enhancement by neck sizing. So, I have purchased an RCBS die and I cannot get the round to chamber well once I have neck sized the case in the RCBS die, and seated the bullet (Hornday 168 grn BTHP) with Hornday Custom Grade seater die. C.O.A.L. is correct, (2.800) The cases chamber fine without the bullet, (fire formed from previous shot). What is "hanging up" is the bullet. It is seated crooked to one side. This is evidenced by scratching that I can see on one side of the seated bullet just past the ogive on down towards the case neck. The cartidge is difficult to extract. Once again, the case is completely clearing the chamber in all areas. The bullet is the culprit. What is causing the bullet to seat to one side and rub on the chamber throat?????

I can take the same fire formed cases and full size them, and everything chambers fine. What gives gentlemen?

 

[Coltdriver]

If you take a loaded cartridge and roll it on a flat surface s the tip centered?

 

[kingmt]

He said the bullet was crooked. Sorry I don't know how the die works.

 

[ranger335v]

Neck sizing is no automatic way to improve any rifle's accuracy. Seating without run-out (bullet tilt) requires a lot more than simply shoulving the case into a neck die; the seater itself, the precision of the sizer die, the case's neck variations and the loader's skills all play a very large part in obtaining good reloaded ammo.

There's no way we can tell you what's interferring with your loads but I can tell you that if your run-out is visible by rolling the cases, it's MASSIVE!

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Check the ram in your loading press to see if the bore it rides in is worn out. Put the ram clear up and see if the ram will wiggle side to side. If it does that may be part of the problem.

I had an old hand me down Redding press that I had to junk because it was worn out like I described above and was pressing my bullets in crooked.

 

[T Bran]

I'd have you send me a loaded round or two to run thru the FCD but by the time you pay shipping both ways you could get the die.
Though I'm certain to get mauled for this statement it is what I would do to help iron out some of the run out.
Have you tried more than one type of brass ?
If they are seating strait in FL sized brass I dont think neck sizing alone would change that. Is it possible that your bolt face isnt square with the chamber?
Just thinking out loud hope it helps.
T

 

[JLDickmon]

somehow I'm thinking that rifle has a short throat, and the bullet is
A. crooked due to the seater(?)
and
B. seated a johnson-hair too long

 

[gamestalker]

I'm thinking along the lines of OAL issues, allow me to elaborate a bit more. Your brass is chambering without problems after necking, correct? So the most likely culprit is the bullet olgive. Using a quality bullet and a precision measuring device to locate where the olgive contacts the lands, you'll find that it's location will often vary by as much as .010", sometimes even more. I've encountered this myself on a number of occasions and it's usually more pronounced or noticable when using necked brass. This is because necked brass provides a low variance chamber fit, so the round has little slop in other words when it's cambered. FL sized brass will commonly produce a bunch more chamber slop which will have a good deal more tollerance to both in diameter and and to the shoulder.

 

[gamestalker]

Opps, I posted before I was finished.

The solution would be to seat a tad deeper when using the neck die. The way I do it is, when I find the lands to olgive contact point I reduce my OAL by .010" to allow for the olgive inconsistentcies from one bullet to the next. I recently ran into some bullets with a pretty wide spread in olgive and had to reduce my OAL even more.

And regarding the run out associated with the press ram, I usually give the cartridge a chance to allign with the die by starting the bullet slightly and then backing the ram down and back up a couple of times. This helps the case head to center in the shell holder to the die. I have an old RCBS press I actually prefer to use for my bottle neck loading, because it will allow the ram to kind of self allign to the die with less resistence on the cartridge or bullet. This is also helpful when resizing too, and especially if the shell holder has a real tight fit to the case head. I know of some who will loosly thread the die into the press to also allow for some self allignment. I don't personally use that method though, as I feel it can create inconsistent seating depths.

GS

 

[claphoto]

Gamestalker,

Awesome advice and insight. What you are telling me makes perfect sense. Especially since Savage chambers are notoriously tight (So I've been told) There is only one small "glitch" to what you are advising me: I will post a photo that shows where the contact point on the bullet is, and I think it is past the ogive along the straight wall portion of the bullet. Take a look and tell me what you see!

 

[fguffey]

It appears to me the shoulder at the case body juncture is squatted, when seating bullets the case body, shoulder/ neck is not supported, and, it looks like you went for the crimp.

There is a discipline to reloading, without the discipline we are left with bad habits.

Again, I form cases for short chambers, I form cases that are .017 thousandths shorter than a minimum length case from the head of the case to the shoulder of the case in thousandths all the way up to .011 thousandths longer than a minimum length case from CH to S with a full length sizer die, the versatile die by simply adjusting the die off the shell holder with a feeler gage, of by raising the case head off the deck of the shell holder. Again, I have neck sizer dies, I have small base dies, I have forming dies, I have special order dies, again, my favorite die is the full length sizer die for forming short cases, long cases and neck sizing, with an exception, I do not neck size only, I neck size with minimum full length sizing, because? I know the length of the chamber.

Anyhow, I suggest you back the seater die off to prevent neck crimping, first adjust the seater die down to the crimp portion of the seater die then back it off 1/2 turn, or 1 turn etc..

F. Guffey

 

[wingman]

My first guess would be die adjustment, I use the lee neck sizing die never had problems.

 

[fguffey]

on second thought and a third thought, let us hope the ‘ring around the bullet’ is caused by the seater plug when seating bullets. If the ring around the bullet is caused by the rifling, do not pull the trigger because getting the bullet down the barrel will render the gun scrap. Then there is the shiny shoulder, the shiny shoulder means the case body below the case body/shoulder juncture is larger in diameter than the chamber at that intersection.

F. Guffey

 

[popper]

Single loaded or from the mag? The ring is seater plug. the lines appear to be feedramp or rifling marks. The scuffing at the bottom of the bullet indicated a crooked or oversized bullet. Try running the seater down to just start the bullet, then rotate 90 deg. - may help a run-out problem. Do you chamfer the case mouth inside - helps starting straight. With that tight neck, no wonder it shoots good.

 

[claphoto]

Guffey,

Yes the ring is the bullet seater! No worries there. I will seat a few a bit shorter than the recommended 2.800" per Hornady book for that bullet (#30501)

Thanks to all for your input

 

[gamestalker]

Wow! I've never seen a bullet look like that after being chambered? I think Fguffey is right, in that you should take what ever steps are necessrary to be certain those are not rifling marks on that projectile. Other wise you just might see what a KB looks like first hand.

 

[89blazin]

It would be interesting to see if you pulled a bullet from your reloads, if the brass would still easily chamber. As mentioned, looks like the shoulders are scrunched a bit. Your pics look like the marks begin right at the ogive. Have you loaded these bullets for this rifle before?

 

[claphoto]

89Blazin,

Yes, the brass chambers fine, and yes, I have shot over 100 of these bullets through this gun, but with full sized brass. This has been my first try with a neck sizer die.

 

[fguffey]

claphoto, again, I suggest backing the seater die off to prevent the die from crimping the case mouth, the shoulder of your case is bulged, the bulge is causing the shiny ring around the case at the case body/shoulder juncture.

It is not the neck sizer die that is the problem unless you removed the primer punch/neck sizer ball assemble assemble.

F. Guffey

 

[Certaindeaf]

Do you ream your necks?

 

[Walkalong]

Did you check the case length after sizing and before loading them? If they were straight until chambering, something jammed them and buckled them. Excessive case length might do that. You would have to have some kind of neck tension for the rifling not to simply push the bullets in deeper.

 

[GTS Dean]

My guess is a bent threaded stem on the seater plug.

 

[Faret]

Neck die problem if the loaded rounds work whenthey are fl resized.