Two Michigan CPL holders make us all look bad...

[answerguy]

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2013/09/road_rage-related_shootout_lea.html

Road rage-related shootout leaves two dead in Ionia, police say

IONIA, MI - Two men died Wednesday, Sept. 18, in a shootout that stemmed from a road rage confrontation, Ionia police said.

Ionia Department of Public Safety officers were dispatched to Wonder Wand Car Wash in the 400 block of South Steele Street shortly before 7 p.m. on reports of shots fired. Police arrived to find two men with gunshot wounds.

Initial investigation shows the Ionia men, ages 43 and 56, pulled into the car wash parking lot after a road rage incident. They exited their vehicles and eventually drew handguns and exchanged fire, police said. It wasn't clear what the two men were arguing about.

 

[Black Butte]

Two less idiots in the world.

 

[answerguy]

But sadly, they make the people who said about CCW "Blood will flow in the streets" and "It'll turn the streets into the wild west" say I told you so.

 

[billdeserthills]

I think the issue went well, I can't see a single thing that went wrong. Two stubborn folks managed to off themselves, which was apparently just what they wanted to accomplish--Nobody was hurt who was not involved, so what more can anyone ask?

 

[zxcvbob]

From what I've read of this, one raging idiot followed another car and when it pulled into a car wash, he murdered the driver. The victim managed to get his own gun out of the car and planted the murderer. I hope I do as well if I'm ever ambushed like that.

ETA: 5 hits and no misses *after* being mortally wounded. What kind of hit ratio does NYPD have?

 

[hang fire]

Not knowing full particulars, IMO, the incident has no bearing on CCW holders or gun owners as a whole.

 

[leadcounsel]

From what I had read, one raging jerk thought another cut him off, and followed him into a lot. The aggressor drew and shot the other guy, who had two passengers in his car. The victim then drew and got in a lethal self defense shot in response, but not before he had been fatally shot. Appears to be road rage on the part of one person, and self defense on the part of the victim.

Lesson, EVERYONE should pay more attention to their driving.

Driving is a HUGE stressor for many people. EVERYONEs lives would be a lot better if careless, thoughtless drivers would learn to pay attention, move out of the passing lane, use their signals, get off their phones, stop doing their makeup, drive with courtesy, etc.

Not saying that inconsiderate driving should mean that you get shot, but I can definitely understand the absolute frustration to the extremes when you are in an extreme hurry to get somewhere and some inconsiderate driver is ahead of you blocking your path because they are going well under the speed limit and won't move over and won't let you pass...

As for reflecting on permit holders, this is an anomaly. In decades of permit holders, these events are statistical flukes.

 

[stressed]

From what I've read of this, one raging idiot followed another car and when it pulled into a car wash, he murdered the driver. The victim managed to get his own gun out of the car and planted the murderer. I hope I do as well if I'm ever ambushed like that.

ETA: 5 hits and no misses *after* being mortally wounded. What kind of hit ratio does NYPD have?

Reminds me of the Old West phrase of mortally wounded/gutshot men. "I'm fixing to shoot me the man that killed me" and "Ain't no man kills me and lives!"

Who knows how this went down. Perhaps one man was acting crazy, and saw he went for a gun and defended himself. What would you do if some guy cut you off, blocked your vehicle and started walking at you with a gun? Would you draw your weapon to defend yourself? If he shot you and you ended up dying after you killed him as well, would the news story about your last encounter paint you as a road rage unreasonable gun owner?

Have to learn all the facts.

 

[Impureclient]

The aggressor drew and shot the other guy, who had two passengers in his car.

Of course the car with passengers who lived say their driver was innocent. How else would it have gone down?

Have to learn all the facts.

 

[stressed]

Read this below story ,this just pisses me off:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/...-road-rage-shootout-b9953189z1-215267661.html

I am no investigator, but the thugs (Scott) in the dodge seem like the aggressors, and they are not being charged, but the guy that was on the phone with 911 the whole time is being charged.

Ridiculous.

If some guy just drove up and fired at me while I was sitting at the light, makes me think it's not a bad idea to have my 7.62x25mm Tok "pistol" SMG with 35 rounds of FMJ loaded next to me in front of the seat. Or hell, better upgrade to an AK pistol - or .308 pistol.

From the looks of this story, you had better not engage to protect your life if you happen to be in a vehicle as you will be arrested.

 

[PapaGrune]

Never mind

sent from inside the fire tornado

 

[JohnBiltz]

If someone was shooting at me and left then I would not then follow them particularly if they kept shooting at me.

 

[GLOOB]

Amazing!

From the story that stressed linked in post #10:

"My radiator was hit, and the car was starting to overheat, so I aimed low to shoot out the tires," Adamany said. (Using a Beretta M9, while driving down the freeway.)

Scott said he finally had to exit I-43 at North Ave. because all of his tires had been shot out, and his car came to rest on King Drive.

That's the neatest thing I have read today.

 

[12131]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=729579

Expect this thread to go bye bye, also.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

I posted the above linked thread a few days ago. I think it relevant as it relates to the responsible part of responsible gun ownership but management felt otherwise.

CPL owners can and will screw up just like anyone else. With more and more cpl owners on the street the odds are we will see more of these stories. It turns my stomach that a few incidents like these feed the gun grabbers and their pet media.

We should be prepared to respond.

edit:
When the story broke it sounded (around here) like one of the shooters involved was actually intending to use the car wash they pulled into. If that is true then I would say ONE cpl holder made us look bad, not two.

.

 

[Sam1911]

I still don't see any new information which would make this instructive to us somehow.

I doubt we all need a sober warning not to get into a fight over a car wash ... Or over anything else, for that matter.

And wringing our hands over whether the antis will make hay out of this doesn't make it any better or worse.

I'd like to hear any details of what exact steps transpired to cause these guys to react the way they did. If anyone cans find out what the critical path of events was, send me a note and I'll re-open this.