U of Utah Drops Federal Gun Lawsuit

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qlajlu

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http://www.dailyutahchronicle.com/h...Story_id=b7625a52-ab71-4e8d-9b70-832fc80a5236

Concealed weapons permit owners allowed to carry on campus
By: Dustin Gardiner
Posted: 3/14/07
The legal battle over the U's campus gun policy came to an end Monday after the university agreed to drop its federal lawsuit against the state.

Students and staff members are now guaranteed the right to carry concealed firearms on campus with a permit -- the U's long-held former policy banned them from bringing guns on campus.

State law still prohibits non-permit holders from bringing guns onto a college campus.

The decision came two weeks after the Utah Legislature passed a law that would allow students living in the Residence Halls to decide if they will room with a permit holder. The U had agreed to end the federal case while negotiating the law with legislators.

Administrators said that while the law was not the compromise they had hoped for, it is in the school's best interest to drop the suit.

"It is absolutely clear that had we chosen to pursue this case, it would have detoriated our relationship with the Legislature," said Dave Pershing, senior vice president for academic affairs.

Pershing said that keeping the gun debate alive would have likely hurt the U's ability to lobby the Legislature for funding. The Board of Trustees passed a resolution Monday supporting the decision to drop the case.

Kim Wirthlin, associate vice president for government relations, said the issue had "become more of a power struggle between the U and the (state) than about guns" to many lawmakers.

There was also doubt that the U could win the federal case.

John Morris, general counsel for the U, said several recent court decisions have weakened the argument that the First Amendment gives universities the right to govern academic affairs in a way that promotes free discussion and debate -- an argument that the U had relied on before.

"Clearly that didn't make our argument any stronger," Morris said. "The status of that right is not clear."

For some students and faculty, the announcement came as a disappointment.

Peng Se Lim said he doesn't understand the need for his peers to have guns on campus.

"Every day coming to the U I feel safe," said the sophomore history major.

Other students don't see permit carriers as a threat.

Hyram Thornton, a junior in nursing, said he thinks the issue was blown out of proportion.

"It doesn't really phase me at all," he said. "I think people just get paranoid…they watch too much TV and think everyone is out to kill each other."

Dave Buhler, Utah System of Higher Education associate commissioner, said that some have perceived the debate as being over a total ban on guns when, in actuality, the policy only applied to students and staff with concealed weapons permits.

"We're talking about a very narrow (group) of people," Buhler said.

University of Utah President Michael K. Young agreed to suspend the gun ban last September several weeks after the Utah Supreme Court ruled it violated state law in order to work out a compromise over the issue with state legislators. He tried unsuccessfully to get guns barred from the Residence Halls, athletic venues, classrooms, faculty offices and University Hospital.

The U's decision to drop the federal case means a victory for Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, who ignited the debate over the U's gun ban in 2001 when he wrote an opinion saying the policy violated state law -- prompting the U to file the federal case. The U was then at odds with Shurtleff and state lawmakers for nearly six years.

The U appeared to be winning the gun debate in 2003 when it won its case in state court, but the Legislature then amended state firearm statutes, solidifying the rights of concealed weapons permit holders on college campuses.

Young had argued that universities are given a certain degree of autonomy to govern academic affairs and that allowing guns would make students feel unsafe, thus hampering free exchange and debate.

He struck a different tone as he addressed the Academic Senate last week about his decision to drop the federal suit. Young apologized to faculty members for not securing further restrictions and said he is forming a task force to evaluate safety on campus.

Young was unavailable for comment on this article.
 
university agreed to drop its federal lawsuit against the state.

That was a STUPID lawsuit from the getgo. The university is part of the state and it sued the state..........next they need to get rid of the idiot that wanted to ban guns form the school.

If I sue myself can I collect if I loose..........
 
OK, the comedy part is that college roommates get to pick "gunnie" and "non-gunnie".

Can anybody see where this will lead?

Yeah. The gunnies will group up. Quite possibly in a dorm or hall that would rapidly become known as "the one NOT to rob!" or "Phi Beta BANG!" or something :).

Prediction: we'll see the Greek letters for "Molon Labe" used at an unusually sober frathouse :D.
 
I wish I'd had that option when I was in college, it would've been a lot more fun to debate 9mm vs 45 every week rather than gun-related-posters vs girlie-posters on the walls.

Kharn
 
:D :D :D :D

Tonight's symposium: 9mm Parabellum vs. .45 ACP, A Historical Perspective.
Location: John Moses Browning Memorial Hall.
Guest speakers: Massad Ayoob, Tom Gresham, Craig Boddington.
I'd pay to see that!

:evil:
 
Students and staff members are now guaranteed the right to carry concealed firearms on campus with a permit -- the U's long-held former policy banned them from bringing guns on campus.

...

Dave Buhler, Utah System of Higher Education associate commissioner, said that some have perceived the debate as being over a total ban on guns when, in actuality, the policy only applied to students and staff with concealed weapons permits.

"We're talking about a very narrow (group) of people," Buhler said.


Let me see if my feeble mind can follow Mr. Buhler's argument. He is saying that the University's gun policy only applies to those with permits, i.e., the only people state law allows to carry concealed guns on a college campus, according to the article. Now, the article also states:

State law still prohibits non-permit holders from bringing guns onto a college campus.

So basically, the University wanted to impose a policy whose effect would be that (1) all non-permit holders and (2) all permit holders couldn't legally bring their firearms on campus. That's the entire universe of gun owners.

Stated another way, the University's policy attempted to prohibit the entire universe of people (permit holders) allowed to legally bring guns on campus. That's a total ban, folks. I guess they don't teach logic (or even basic set theory) in school anymore?
 
"It is absolutely clear that had we chosen to pursue this case, it would have detoriated our relationship with the Legislature," said Dave Pershing, senior vice president for academic affairs.
Looks like somebody finally "got it."
 
John Morris, general counsel for the U, said several recent court decisions have weakened the argument that the First Amendment gives universities the right to govern academic affairs in a way that promotes free discussion and debate -- an argument that the U had relied on before.

"Clearly that didn't make our argument any stronger," Morris said. "The status of that right is not clear."

The status of that right is utterly irrelevant; Prohibiting students with CCW permits from packing has about as much to do with promoting free discussion and debate as dictating to them what brand of toothpaste they could use would.
 
I wonder what school of journalism the writer of the article attended:

"It doesn't really phase me at all," he said. "I think people just get paranoid…they watch too much TV and think everyone is out to kill each other."
Do you think maybe the student being quoted said "faze" and the idiot reporter doesn't know the difference? Hooked on Phonics will be the death of the English language yet.

"Set fazers on stun, Mr. Sulu." :confused:
 
Not sure if anyone realizes this, but in St. George Utah's "Dixie State College" the library is the "Val A. Browning" library...
 
Drop suit, change law?

Are they still pushing for a change in Utah law that will let them effectively accomplish the same thing?

You kind of have to watch both hands on these guys.
 
They were. It's called SB251.

http://www.goutahorg.org/archive/index.html

Read the Final Scorecard. Essentially the University of Utah lost the battle in the Legislature. The "dorm room" thing that did pass was already part of the administrative rules in the U, anyway, so they gained nothing.

They are pulling some stuff behind the scenes. However, it is being worked out in the upper echelons and it will be resolved in our favor. I'll let it be delt with before I reveal what it is.
 
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