UBC's and CC a few thoughts

[CoalTrain49]

I just noticed that about 4 states have legislation pending for constitutional carry (CC) and six states already have it. I believe Kansas just made it legal.

I also noticed a big push from the AG folks to get universal background checks for gun transfers in place in a number of states. That also happened in my state last year.

Is this a trend? Do people support BC's and carry without a permit? It sure looks that way to me.

States are going for UBC's. Because these bills and initiatives are so popular and popping up everywhere wouldn't it make sense to start thinking and talking about UBC's and constitutional carry in the same sentence. CC would eliminate a lot of problems with reciprocity if more states had it.

CC isn't illegal by federal code but gun sales through dealers are without a BC. It seems the population wants to come more in line with federal code regarding BC's (for all transfers) so I say lets come more in line with constitutional carry while we're at it.

I'm curious how this is going to play out on a national scale.

Don't expect a heated debate from me on this because it's just an observation. I have expressed my opinion about UBC's and registration here already many times.

 

[JSH1]

Is this a trend? Do people support BC's and carry without a permit? It sure looks that way to me.

Not the same people. UBC bills and initiatives are passing in states controlled by Democrats. CC bills are passing in states controlled by Republicans. Each side is advancing their agenda where it is possible.

States are going for UBC's. Because these bills and initiatives are so popular and popping up everywhere wouldn't it make sense to start thinking and talking about UBC's and constitutional carry in the same sentence. CC would eliminate a lot of problems with reciprocity if more states had it.

I've been saying this for a while now. I personally believe a Federal concealed carry reciprocity bill and other changes (suppressors) are possible if universal background checks were put on the table to sweeten the deal. Both sides get something and a bill gets passed.

I think UBC's will be coming to a lot of states, mostly by ballot initiatives. Once that happens the bargaining chip for concealed carry is lost.

 

[jerkface11]

Anti gunners never put anything on the table so bargaining is impossible.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I think UBC's will be coming to a lot of states, mostly by ballot initiatives. Once that happens the bargaining chip for concealed carry is lost.

There are no bargaining chips with ballot initiatives, only when legislators craft the bills. I don't know of any initiatives regarding constitutional carry (CC).

I'm not talking about permitted concealed carry. I'm talking about full blown un-permitted carry in any manor you wish, concealed or open. Maybe it's time we started fighting fire with fire. For every UBC initiative the AG crowd puts on a ballot there should be a constitutional carry initiative. For every UBC bill introduced there should be a CC bill introduced.

They say universal background check, we say constitutional carry. The AG crowd shouldn't have any problem with that unless they just want to disarm everyone which they claim they don't with UBC's.

 

[JSH1]

There are no bargaining chips with ballot initiatives, only when legislators craft the bills. I don't know of any initiatives regarding constitutional carry (CC).

I know there are no bargaining chips with ballot initiatives. My point is that with every state that enacts UBCs, a bargaining chip is lost. It doesn't matter if UBC pass by ballot initiative or legislative process.

I'm not talking about permitted concealed carry. I'm talking about full blown un-permitted carry in any manor you wish, concealed or open.

I know what you are talking about. I personally think that CC is a bridge too far on the national level. I do think permitted concealed carry with full reciprocity is attainable at the national level.

Maybe it's time we started fighting fire with fire. For every UBC initiative the AG crowd puts on a ballot there should be a constitutional carry initiative. For every UBC bill introduced there should be a CC bill introduced.

You could try. The legislative path is quickest and easiest if you have the votes. Ballot initiatives are usually used when a minority in the legislature has been blocking something popular with the majority of the public. I suspect we don't see CC ballot initiatives because the States were CC has broad public support the legislature is open to the idea.

They say universal background check, we say constitutional carry. The AG crowd shouldn't have any problem with that unless they just want to disarm everyone which they claim they don't with UBC's.

Wanting armed citizens to have a minimum amount of training isn't the same thing as wanting to disarm people.

 

[Twiki357]

Originally Posted by CoalTrain49 View Post
They say universal background check, we say constitutional carry. The AG crowd shouldn't have any problem with that unless they just want to disarm everyone which they claim they don't with UBC's.

That’s just another of the anti-gun crowds lies. They DO want to disarm everyone and UBCs are just a step in that direction.

 

[jerkface11]

Complete government control of all Firearms transfers? Nothing could go wrong there.

 

[mgmorden]

That’s just another of the anti-gun crowds lies. They DO want to disarm everyone and UBCs are just a step in that direction.

Nonsense - they'll leave you with an iron-sighted single shot with a minimum barrel length of 28".

So long as you can buy "a gun" then the 2nd amendment is maintained in their eyes.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Wanting armed citizens to have a minimum amount of training isn't the same thing as wanting to disarm people.

I'm not seeing any statistical evidence where the lack of training for a permit has any effect one way or the other in states that don't have any training requirements. I live in a state that has no requirements. Can you produce any statistics that back up this position?

Mostly, it's just another argument against constitutional carry that doesn't hold water. What about those folks that can't afford the training or the money to pay for a permit. Looks like they are being denied a constitutional right based on their ability to pay. Do you support permits to vote?

 

[JSH1]

That’s just another of the anti-gun crowds lies. They DO want to disarm everyone and UBCs are just a step in that direction.

What percentage of US voters do you think support banning guns?

 

[Tommygunn]

What percentage of US voters do you think support banning guns?

Probably the same %%% that supported Obamacare .......

 

[DeepSouth]

Do people support BC's and carry without a permit? It sure looks that way to me.

I believe what is happening is governments (local, state, and federal) like the idea of universal background checks while the people (out side of cities) support constitutional carry and many other pro gun rights ideas.

 

[TimSr]

I don't think one has anything to do with the other. Constitutional carry has substance and people support it for what it will do.

UBC is a political show proposal supported mostly out of ignorance, by people who do not understand that we already have background checks in place, and all the statistical evidence shows that they do not accomplish anything. People support it because it "sounds" logical and reasonable. It's main purpose is to make gunowners who don't support it appear to be unreasonable. Voter initiatives are not only successful when a minority blocks popular legislation, but also when a proposal is dependant on low information voters who vote based on the title.

 

[JSH1]

I believe what is happening is governments (local, state, and federal) like the idea of universal background checks while the people (out side of cities) support constitutional carry and many other pro gun rights ideas.

The vast majority of people support UBCs. You are correct though that there is a definite urban / rural split on the issue. However, the majority of the US population (80%) live in urban areas.

 

[DeepSouth]

The vast majority of people support UBCs.

I'm not so sure about that, lots of people agree with the idea until it's accurately explained. A majority.....maybe. A large majority, that I doubt.

 

[JSH1]

I'm not so sure about that, lots of people agree with the idea until it's accurately explained. A majority.....maybe. A large majority, that I doubt.

I hear that said a lot here on THR but have never seen any data to back up the claim. I would love to see the data. (I really mean it)

 

[benEzra]

What percentage of US voters do you think support banning guns?

It's not as high as the percentage of legislators, the corporate media, and Wall Street/Silicon Valley billionaires who do. I dare say a majority of them would ban modern-looking rifles and post-Civil-War-capacity magazines if they could, excepting their own security staff of course.

Given the fact that we've seen bans happen in Connecticut, Colorado(!), and Maryland in just the past couple of years, I think the "no one seriously wants to ban anything" argument is ludicrous. The same people and organizations pushing registration are the ones pushing the bans.

 

[DeepSouth]

I hear that said a lot here on THR but have never seen any data to back up the claim. I would love to see the data. (I really mean it)

Speakers my for myself, I know of no such data.
Frankly, I doubt such data exists, not because it's people's opinions but because the poll questions are frequently asked in a skewed manner or at best, offer insufficient facts to get an accurate answer.

My thinking is everybody loves universal background checks until they understand how it will work, then there's likely a big no go with at least a large portion of people.
For what it's worth, Ted Cruz seems to agree with me.

Mobil link is all I've got right now.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yzLHcoJPB5g

 

[AlexanderA]

I think it would be a mistake to link these two unrelated issues.

 

[mgkdrgn]

UBC's will not protect anyone from EXISTING criminals, but they sure will CREATE a lot of new ones!