UK: Are you a gun owner? Let us in OR ELSE, say Blighty's top cops

[Midwest]

UK: Are you a gun owner? Let us in OR ELSE, say Blighty's top cops

The police can now come unannounced to inspect firearms. Before an appointment would be needed for inspection

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/19/column_acpo_campaign_against_british_gun_owners/


"The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has announced a legal tweak intended to allow police officers to turn up at the homes of gun owners, without warning, and demand to inspect guns stored on the premises. "

The police always had the power to revoke firearm and shotgun certificates and seize guns. But the part about unannounced visits is new.

"The police have always had the legal power to revoke firearm or shotgun certificates and seize guns where concerns are raised over the fitness of the owner to have them."


Those here on THR who advocate "gun owner licensing" or "firearms licensing" should take heed on what happens when the such licensing schemes are the law of the land...as described in this article.
.

 

[rondog]

Yep. Let that camel get its nose under the tent just once.....

 

[Odd Job]

This is nothing new, the police have had this option all along.

However there is a legal case that has triggered this ACPO announcement. See this snippet from the NRA newsletter for October 2014:

FIREARMS SECURITY – ADVICE TO MEMBERS

The NRA is pleased to announce that another FAC revocation appeal, supported by the NRA and funded by the Member’s legal expenses insurance, has resulted in the restoration of the Member’s FAC and SGC before a full Court hearing commenced. However, the case once again turned on the interpretation of statutory conditions 4a and 4b on the Member’s FAC following a police visit on an unrelated matter. The expense and gross inconvenience might have been prevented had the Member done a few simple things differently.

The NRA has also been informed very recently that Home Office Guidance on Firearms Law will shortly be amended to advise that the police should carry out unannounced visits to check firearms security where they have specific intelligence that there may be an issue.

FAC = Firearms Certificate
SGC = Shotgun Certificate

 

[Jim K]

At one time, I spent a fair amount of time in the UK. Generally, the folks are pretty friendly, but I found the police to be arrogant, brutal, and vicious. When they are given guns, they simply go insane, waving the guns around and threatening everyone in sight. I have mentioned before about seeing a woman at Heathrow whose young son had one of those wooden "Arab muskets" bought at some souvenir shop. A police sergeant had the poor woman backed up against a wall, while he screamed and ranted and threatened to kill her for bringing a "deadly weapon" into the country. While this was going on, his two accomplices, who looked more like thugs than police, pointed their submachine guns at the terrified children, the boy of about 6 and a girl of about 8. I thought the "kind, gentle" police were going to slaughter the little family right there in the airport.

Based on the way the British press usually handles those situations (two days and go on to something else, they are ordered), I have little doubt the cops would have gotten away with it.

IMHO, given a choice between being confronted by an armed British cop and the Nazi Gestapo, I think I would take the Nazi; he would probably be a nicer guy.

Jim

 

[g.willikers]

Boy, have times changed over there.
The last time we were in London, (many years ago), the only armed police were around the embassy area.
They mostly had sidearms and actually looked self conscious about having to be armed.

 

[JERRY]

didn't Sherlock Homes go about armed as a civilian? I know he was fictional character but where the gun laws too? what about Conan Doyle? I remember reading where he (as with other gentlemen) would slip a revolver into their pockets before going out on the town. what happened to the folks in the UK to stand by and let the government take guns away from the law abiding?

 

[g.willikers]

It supposedly was due to the Bolshevik revolution in Russia, during and after WW1.
The Higher Ups in England didn't want something similar to happen to them.
So, the push was started for controlling firearms.
Sounds plausible.

 

[Odd Job]

what happened to the folks in the UK to stand by and let the government take guns away from the law abiding?

What happened was the media were able to capitalize on two massacres committed with legally-held guns. One was in 1987 in Hungerford and the other was in 1996 in Dunblane.

Just like Newtown, the knee-jerk reaction was to ban guns. The difference between the UK and US is that there wasn't enough of a shooting community to resist these bans in the UK.
In essence, it was what the majority of British citizens wanted.
Just like the US, the ones calling for the bans don't subscribe to individual responsibility and have little to lose by these bans coming in to effect.

 

[Odd Job]

IMHO, given a choice between being confronted by an armed British cop and the Nazi Gestapo, I think I would take the Nazi; he would probably be a nicer guy.

My experience has been very different.
I have had only positive interactions with the police.
There was one incident when I was leaving Heathrow back in 1991 and something in my hand luggage set off a detector in the security area. It set off several sirens and there was some major prairie-dogging going on with the security screeners like I had hit 777 on the slots.

Within a few seconds some dudes pitched up with MP5s and they had me semi-proned on an angled carpeted surface near the screening unit. All my stuff got searched, I was advised *firmly* to not do anything "unwise."

Turns out that amongst my trinkets in my hand luggage were the cut-off stems of two titanium hip implants (I had fancy ideas about crafting those into arrow heads as they were hard as hell).

Somehow they lit up something in the machinery pretty fierce, but once they were checked up close I was allowed to carry on as usual (with the pins).

That's the only negative thing I have experienced and it is no worse than what would have happened in SA or dare I say USA also.

 

[lemaymiami]

I've only been to the UK twice over the years (my wife is from there) and both times I was impressed with the demeanor and skill level of the LE types I came into contact with. During those years I was a full time cop down here in south Florida so I might have a bit of knowledge about that sort of stuff.... All of this was some years ago, though, when it was a rare officer that was armed (and the way they went about it you never knew whether you were dealing with armed or un-armed officers). All of this was long before 9/11 though so things have probably changed quite a bit.

It should be remembered by anyone doing comparisons between their system and ours that we have far greater restrictions on our officers than they do (no they don't have to get a search warrant and they can search for evidence to base an arrest on...). The requirements gun owners face there are far more stringent than anythng we have here (and your right to own a gun is reviewed each year by your local constabulary and they can withdraw your permit for cause...).

Thank heavens for our Constitution and Bill of Rights. We have far more freedoms than most in the so-called civilized world.... By the way the UK has been facing "terrorism" for quite some years now. Back in the late seventies when I met my wife there was an active IRA bombing campaign over there... More to say on this topic but not on a public forum.

 

[SSN Vet]

Losing RKBA leads to losing other rights

British gun owners now subject to warrantless home searches....

Any body still wonder why the founding fathers viewed the right to keep and bare arms as central to the entire bill of rights.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

UK gun owners now subject to warrantless home searches

I see them attempting this hear under the guise of terrorism, homeland security, domestic violence, or mental health checks.


The perfect reason to never register your firearms.






http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/10/20/uk-gun-owners-now-subject-to-warrantless-home-searches/

UK gun owners now subject to warrantless home searches

Published October 20, 2014·
FoxNews.com

Registered gun owners in the United Kingdom are now subject to unannounced visits to their homes under new guidance that allows police to inspect firearms storage without a warrant.

The new policy from the British Home Office went into effect Oct. 15, permitting police and constabularies to conduct surprise home visits to legitimate gun owners.

“Americans should view the UK’s ever-expanding gun control efforts with grave concern,” the National Rifle Association’s lobbying arm said on its website Friday.

 

[Field Tester]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=764033

Already being discussed here.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Soooo...

These "terrorists" that are bombing the cr*p out of their targets...

What guns, exactly, are they using?


Let's see:

In the 1990s: 24 terrorist bombings. ONE shooting by the Provisional IRA.

In the 2000s: 10 bombings.

In the 2010s: 3 bombings. 1 knifing. 1 shooting and knifing by two Islamist extremists.


So WHERE, pray tell, is there a NEED to conduct WARRANTLESS searches of U.K. citizens who are ALREADY registered and tracked out the wazoo?


THIS is why gun control is so vehemently opposed in the United States by such people as myself.

 

[Odd Job]

It isn't terrorists that have hurt the cause, it is the use of legally-held firearms to commit crimes, specifically in cases where multiple people have been shot.
I'm just surprised after the Cumbria shootings that there weren't further bans. I think under a Labour government there would have been another ban, but fortunately David Cameron said

We shouldn't make any knee-jerk reaction to think that there is some instant legislative or regulatory answer.
You can't legislate to stop a switch flicking in someone's head and for this dreadful sort of action to take place.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10227429

Another damaging case was the Peterlee shootings where a man killed three women and himself with a legally-held shotgun, which it turns out should have been confiscated if you see the suspect's history:

http://tinyurl.com/l85pnbt

Those are the cases that stick in the public mind. And if someone famous is murdered, that also leads to outcry. That applies to the murder of Jill Dando, a television presenter (still unsolved):

http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/crime-files/jill-dando-murder

In that case they say it was an air pistol converted to 9mm, but no weapon was ever found...

 

[Thermactor]

Incredible. It's cringeworthy to see how far down Britain has fallen when it comes to protecting the rights of its citizens. It is a bonafide police state.

 

[CWL]

That is England. Whole different country than ours.

If I recall correctly, our forefathers fought a war with England to be free of them and added the 2nd Amendment just in case of future threats from within and without.

I draw nothing comparable from what happens in other countries, especially ones with entirely different laws and judicial system.

 

[Mk VII]

Follow-up article now demonstrates police are fiddling the figures for their own purposes.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/20/acpo_claims_nearly_double_number_stolen_firearms_truth/

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I had to look up the Peterlee shootings. Incredible.

The inquest heard that Atherton, despite a history of domestic abuse and threats of self-harm, legally owned six weapons, including three shotguns.

The inquest also heard that there was no formal training for police officers involved in granting firearms licences.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/mar/08/peterlee-shooting-coroner-gun-licensing

Sooo...the police, a state run agency charged with administering and upholding the firearms laws, cannot do their job. Which, somehow, automatically translates into more penalties and laws against the citizens at large?


It's long been one of my contentions that the reason the United States hasn't gone the way of the U.K., Austrailia, and many other nations with respect to gun control laws is the fact that the United States is a union of 50 states, each with their own governments (even while under the Federal government) as well as the large diversity in demographics combined with the large geographical area the people and states are spread across.

This makes it inherently more difficult for such laws to be swept into place in a short time...and allows for the possibility for successful regional opposition to such laws as well.

I hope our brothers in the U.K. are able to put a stop to this insane "police state" activity. Warrantless searches on the drop of a hat? *shudder*

 

[Ignition Override]

usmarine 0352 2005:
Good point about (hinting at?) a face-to-face (FTF) gun deal.
I've done about four of these deals, perfectly safe using common sense.

The only gun I've bought which needed a factory repair (any type of repair) was a brand-new, store bought (in '07) Auto Ordnance M-1 Carbine.

But for those who only deal with retail and the NICS checks/records, have at it....