Unique for 38 Special?
- Thread starter Zack Q
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Toprudder
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Inside 25 yards, definitely. However, all else equal, there is no reason not to pick a load that will give lower extreme spread. I've seen as much as 300 fps difference when testing for powder forward effect. That tells me that the combination (powder, primer, crimp, bullet) is not good and may possibly lead to a stuck bullet.
Absolutely. In a low pressure cartridge such as 38spl, a faster burning powder at the upper half of the charge range is a better idea than trying to get a slow burning powder to operate at the low end of the charge range, even though they may give roughly the same velocity.
lordpaxman
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Right! I didn’t mean to imply you should ignore statistics, especially if either the SD or ES indicate a problem. When I first got a chrono I was solely focused on the load with the lowest SD thinking that would be “the one”. After all, how can statistics lie??? After that I focused on precision first, with ES and SD being tolerable.
Toprudder
Member
100% agree with that! My journey with the chrono was much like yours.
For pistol shooting inside 25 yards, or rifle inside of 100 yards, low SD does not really equate to improved accuracy. I tend to look at the SD of pistol loads as an indicator of how "happy" a powder is for a given load. Some powders just don't do well at lower pressures. Also, some powders may be more sensitive to neck tension or crimping than others. For most pistol loads, I like seeing SD at least below 20, but one of the more accurate loads in 45acp that I found was with Accurate #5 and a SD of 25.
For "mouse fart" loads (as one member put it), in .38 Spl with 158 Gr bullets I highly recommend WST or Competition. Accurate, much less position sensitive than many powders in this application, and very accurate.
Agreed.
OP
OP
Zack Q
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I agree Toprudder. I'm just looking for a good combo that the data tells me is burning efficiently and safely. I really don't like to see duds like the one I had at 250 fps. The only reason I'm looking at using CFE Pistol is that i have some handy. Most handgun calibers I load for Unique and CFE handles them all and this is the first one that didnt seem right with that combo. I loaded up the same test rounds as before with 10 of each headstamp to try out next time at the range using CFE. If those results still aren't satisfactory I'm going to look into HP38, Clays or Bullseye
That MF term has finally died, a slow, painful, and lingering death, please-please-please don't repeat/parrot it
We(I) don't want it back
Let the AR guys have it
The Franklin Armory Rotary Tumbler took over that complete name nomenclature theme
My personal favorite is "puff loads" or suggest buying a 22lr to those looking for such loads, and leave the brass on the ground.
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Catpop
Member
Am I missing something here?
What’s wrong with the phrase “mouse farts”?
I’m 68 years old and grew up in the deep south rural farm country.
I don’t see an issue.
Just curious
What’s wrong with the phrase “mouse farts”?
I’m 68 years old and grew up in the deep south rural farm country.
I don’t see an issue.
Just curious
Do yourself a favor and don't waste time on CFE P in 38s. It is very poor in it and it's only tolerable in 357 at Max charges. I do like it in 40S&W.
I prefer slightly faster than unique in 38s.
At the risk of contributing even more geezer speak,
To each their own, just not a term I enjoy.
Just poking a little fun @walkaong, no issue.
I guess it was a poor attempt at humor on my part, that's all.
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Catpop
Member
Alls well on my end!
I’m not politically correct anyway!
Poke away!
I’m not politically correct anyway!
Poke away!
lordpaxman
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I resemble that! I found it even funnier that @Catpop likes mouse farts.
How about "Bunny Fart" loads. Is that OK?(it's almost Easter!)
4.6 grains may be OK for a Lead bullet with an actual crimp groove. Plated bullets are closer to Jacketed bullets then they are to lead. The old wisdom of load at lead bullet levels is from long ago when plated first came out and they didn't have data for them. Middle levels of jacketed seems to be the thing now. Some plated are better than others and can be loaded higher. To me RMR bullets are better than Berrys .Berrys says you can use any data, sure you can but may get poor performace.
Also with their plated base they do not obturate as well as lead.The OPs data of ES and SD is all over the place. (still don't know what Chrono brand) some just don't function well.
JMHO but Unique measured through Lee auto disc, just does not meter very well (yes, I used one for MANY years)
Plated bullets, again just my opinion are not the best for revolver loads. Unburned powder and fuggly ES tells me he is not getting good combustion
As ForrestR stated, get some other bullets, put a real crimp on the rounds and then try them, if no luck try HP 38 or Bullesye
(it's almost Easter!)4.6 grains may be OK for a Lead bullet with an actual crimp groove. Plated bullets are closer to Jacketed bullets then they are to lead. The old wisdom of load at lead bullet levels is from long ago when plated first came out and they didn't have data for them. Middle levels of jacketed seems to be the thing now. Some plated are better than others and can be loaded higher. To me RMR bullets are better than Berrys .Berrys says you can use any data, sure you can but may get poor performace.
Also with their plated base they do not obturate as well as lead.The OPs data of ES and SD is all over the place. (still don't know what Chrono brand) some just don't function well.
JMHO but Unique measured through Lee auto disc, just does not meter very well (yes, I used one for MANY years)
Plated bullets, again just my opinion are not the best for revolver loads. Unburned powder and fuggly ES tells me he is not getting good combustion
As ForrestR stated, get some other bullets, put a real crimp on the rounds and then try them, if no luck try HP 38 or Bullesye
P5 Guy
Member
Butterfly burp loads
OK, you guys need to STOP piling-on and drifting here, and get back on subject...
anything's better than MF.
@Catpop: I see you now have figured out that emojis may indicate a tongue in cheek, attempt at humor post
.OP, I apologize for starting the drift off subject and wasting bandwidth
,
Dudedog
Contributing Member
BDS posted a screw mod for the Lee Disk measure here someplace.
Basically you take a larger disk cavity and drill a hole then thread a screw (I don't remember the size 8/32, 10/24 something around there)
Then by screwing the screw in more you can reduce that cavity size to adjust your powder charge.
A faster burning powder might help as well. I have used AA#2 and HP38 with different bullets and had good results.
Walkalong has posts on powder forward/powder back and I forget what worked well for him.
I wouldn't buy CFE-P to try in .38 but if you have it already it's worth trying if nothing else it will meter better than Unique.
Basically you take a larger disk cavity and drill a hole then thread a screw (I don't remember the size 8/32, 10/24 something around there)
Then by screwing the screw in more you can reduce that cavity size to adjust your powder charge.
A faster burning powder might help as well. I have used AA#2 and HP38 with different bullets and had good results.
Walkalong has posts on powder forward/powder back and I forget what worked well for him.
I wouldn't buy CFE-P to try in .38 but if you have it already it's worth trying if nothing else it will meter better than Unique.
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I have been loading .38 spl with Unique for over 45 years. It is a great powder for the .38 spl, and other handgun cartridges like the 9mm, .45 ACP, .44 special, and medium pressure loads in the magnums.
When there are velocity variations in a few rounds of more than 15% within a batch of ammo supposedly loaded with the same charge the reason is most likely that some of the rounds received a lighter powder charge. There can be several different reasons for this like not operating the powder measure with consistency, powder bridging, use of a large universal powder drop tube rather than a smaller tube designed for handgun charges under 10 grains.
Some say that they have difficulty metering Unique accurately but I get less than .005 gr variation when using Unique metered from my Hornady powder meter fitted with the pistol drop tube.
When there are velocity variations in a few rounds of more than 15% within a batch of ammo supposedly loaded with the same charge the reason is most likely that some of the rounds received a lighter powder charge. There can be several different reasons for this like not operating the powder measure with consistency, powder bridging, use of a large universal powder drop tube rather than a smaller tube designed for handgun charges under 10 grains.
Some say that they have difficulty metering Unique accurately but I get less than .005 gr variation when using Unique metered from my Hornady powder meter fitted with the pistol drop tube.
I don't use much Unique and what I have used was mostly in the .44 spl and .45 acp; but even in these two I prefer Bullseye or Red Dot. I much prefer Bullseye or Red Dot in the .38 and 2400 in the 357. H110/296 are excellent magnum powders and I load that powder(s) a lot. Unique isn't a "bad" powder by any stretch of the imagination; it's just not the easiest metering powder on the market. Blue dot is another good one.
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