Unscientific Experiment for This Weekend

[TrapperReady]

I'm meeting up with an old friend this weekend, and we've decided to do some quail shooting (I'll refrain from using the term hunting, since these are preserve birds).

Anyway, we're both very evenly matched in terms of shooting ability, and both are shooting essentially the same guns (Browning 325/425 O/Us). However, he's of the "lots of shot moving fast" school, while I'm switching to the "light loads at moderate velocity" school.

In fact, I've recently read Michael McIntosh's book "Shotguns and Shooting", in which he advocates upland hunting with 12ga 7/8 oz loads at velocities of roughly 1220fps. This is almost identical to the target loads I've been playing with recently.

So, this weekend, I'll be shooting my light loads, while my friend is using 1 1/8 oz or 1 1/4 oz moving at nearly 1500fps. We'll keep careful track of the quail which are shot at, and see what the results are. Sunday night or Monday, I'll post a follow-up and let you know how it goes.

Scientific? No.
Interesting? Maybe.
Fun? Most definitely yes!

Something tells me there just may be a friendly little wager placed this weekend.

BTW, feel free to share any of your favorite quail recipes.

 

[Bowlcut]

sounds like a good old fashion whos better and it sounds good

plus you get a good meal at the end of it, despite who turns out right or wrong

 

[C.R.Sam]

Win, lose or draw; you are gonna have fun.

Most likely the outcome will be determined by who is having an "on" day.

Might spice it a little and have the gunner with the lower count do the bird cleaning.

Sam

 

[sm]

TR, I'm betting on you. I believe the load has better density and better patterns. Your buddy might blow patterns and thus density.

All in the name of "science"...I understand

Gonna be fun no matter. Yep gotta have a gentlemen's bet.

 

[campergeek]

Are wagers being taken? I read an article recently (don't remember if it was in American Rifleman or Field & Stream) in which the author was testing high-velocity loads. He gave all sorts of calculated data which showed that in theory the HV loads would be less likely to hit their mark. However, he then explained that despite all of his data and unexplainable to him, the high velocity resulted in more dead birds.

All things being equal, my bet is on the high velocity to bring down more birds. Between the two of you it'll probably be a draw on the fun factor.

 

[sm]

IME
when it comes to shotguns, loads and chokes...they all have a mind of their own. I have taken two exact same guns/loads/chokes...and gotten two different results, on a PB.

Quail are just fun and good eating. None around here and I have the jones bad , real bad, I mean really bad.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Sounds like major fun to me,TR, and I'll wager the usual flagon of mead you come out on top. Here's why...

First, you won't be as tired. Recoil is exhausting. See if you can talk him into a round or two of 5 stand to warm up with first.

Second, using 1 1/4 oz of shot on quail is like using a 375 H&H on whitetails in the brush. Sure, it'll do the job, but we don't NEED that much.

7/8 oz of 8s will do the job if we do ours.

As to recipes, split the cleaned birds, dip in flour, egg whites and milk, then seasoned flour/corn meal. Fry at lower heat than chicken till a little browned and enjoy...

Awaiting results...

 

[TrapperReady]

Dave - I think you read my mind on the recoil advantage. I was thinking of running about 100 targets of wobble trap prior to hitting the fields. That should soften him up nicely.

C.R. Sam - The bird-cleaning bit sounds like an excellent idea.

 

[PJR]

1-1/4 @ 1,500 for preserve quail?

I suppose his go-to ground hog gun is a .300 Win Mag.

An interesting twist might be if you switched loads half way through the hunt for comparison purposes. I'll bet your partner is convinced that light loads are the way to go.

That said I like to split the difference and use a fast moving light loads for small birds. My favorite ruffed grouse load is an international clays load of 24 grams of copper-plated 7-1/2 shot going out at 1,400 fps.

Paul

 

[sm]

Yeah that recoil wears on a fella, good reminder Dave.
There is aplace for Pigeon loads...quail ain't it. IMO
PJR , I've used a similiar Int'l skeet load, another good choice.
When we had quail and a season, I'd use(12ga) 1oz target loads, with a couple of 1 1/18oz, for one area because the birds flushed early and we needed to fell before they made it to the woods or lake.

For carrying ease- I used my Citori 3 bbl set with the 20 bore. I didn't suffer any . NOW for me, pure fun,getting quail and ease of carry...That Citori again with 28 ga and use my skeet loads. Fun factor, hits hard, easy to tote.

I'm jonesing to go...Dave, Dave you are gonna have scratch biscuits and gravy...honey on the side and iced tea...right?

Trapper...have fun busting quail and if get pics, post 'em.

 

[45auto]

IMO, preserve quail with a good dog and 7/8 oz could be overkill. 28 gauge with 5/8 oz is perfect.


Dave & TrapperReady:

Good idea on softening him up. I'd keep the 'pretest' down to 25 shots for your friend. 100 shells with 1 1/4 at 1500 FPS and he may be talking like a heavyweight boxer after 15 rounds.

 

[TrapperReady]

45auto - I agree that 28ga would be perfect. Unfortunately, that's one gauge which is sadly lacking from my collection. There's a nice trim Beretta O/U I've had my eye on, but I've not made up my mind about O/U or SxS yet. Oh yeah, and there's this 12ga Model 21 that I'm saving my pennies for... grumble, grumble... gonna need a bigger safe...

re1973 - Biscuits, honey, iced tea and little bitty quail morsels??? I think I need to wipe the drool off the keyboard and have some breakfast.

 

[sm]

TR,
Ok, after breakfast, run don't walk and get a 28 ga O/U...forget money...its for the sake of science for heavens sakes !!

The other guns, SxS and all come later...we're talking science. Now don't let your bud know you have it, practice with him with what he thinks your gonna use. Then break in new gun when he is not around. Show up for hunt
" oh darn , brought the ,ahem,wrong gun...I guess I'll just have to make do

I hope you slobbered all over your keyboard and monitor real good...might help my case of the jones...

I will Quail Hunt for food.

 

[45auto]

I have to echo re1973 advice on a 28 gauge O/U. The only thing you need to think about is whether you want one in a 'hunting' grade, lighter, shorter bbls, small gauge frame, etc. Or more of a 'target grade', 20 gauge frame, longer bbls, more weight, etc.

I'm biased, but aside from the standard 12 gauge, I think the 28 gauge is the best. Fun factor and hard hits with no recoil- no contest- 28 gauge.

 

[PJR]

Having recently acquired a three barrel set, I have to agree with the comments on the 28 gauge. The 28 performs well out of proportion to its size and although I haven't tried it on feathered birds, I'm sure it will get the job done as well as the 20 provided ranges are not excessive.

The .410 is, ahem, another kettle of fish entirely.

Paul

 

[Dave McCracken]

I'm salivating heavily, partly at the thought of quail shooting, partly at the thought of a 28 gauge, partly,of course, of fried quail,Pop's homemade biscuits and pan gravy with a short jigger of Black Jack stirred in. And "Sweet tea" with lots of lemon. Only meal to compare it with is Bluegill filets and cornbread....

Let's get back to shooting, slobber, drool....

If we ever NEEDED to justify the 28 gauge, quail are one heckuva fine reason.

Not hard to kill, so light loads of small shot work.

Hard to hit, so a fairly fast, light shotgun works best.

Close range, open choke shooting.

Put them together and 28 gauges sit right where the lines cross on the graph.

And quail can captivate our fancies, there's something about a good pointer frozen in position and a little gun in our hands that reaches deep inside us all.

Sure, I've killed a messa quail with 12 gauges, mainly 870s of varying choke and lighter loads. Given the chance, I'll do it again in a NYC minute. But the appeal of doing it like Babcock and Buckingham and other spo'tin' gennulmen is strong indeed.

 

[TrapperReady]

Since you're talking about chokes Dave...

The guys I hunt with most of the time are not necessarily the best of shots, so I usually bring some pretty tight chokes and bat cleanup. I think in the last couple of years, the I haven't used anything more open than Mod on game. My buddy this weekend is usually pretty good, and when he brings his "A Game" is hard to beat.

Figuring this will be at closer range and that the lunch tab (and bird cleaning) will be on the line, I've swapped out for Skeet in one barrel and IC in the other. Whadda ya think? I've got a full complement of chokes and can do IC/IC or IC/Mod, or pretty near any other combo.

I don't have time to get to the pattern board... but want to stack the deck as much in my favor (short of mixing up some rice loads to put in his vest) as possible.

BTW, as I loaded up a few boxes of shells today, I was struck by how much I dislike the new Winchester AA hulls. Everything I loaded was with once or twice used hulls, and they really don't look that good. However, my normal target hulls are Remington STS and they look better than the AAs, even after being loaded 5 or 6 times. The only thing I can say about using AAs is that I'm not upset if I leave some on the ground.

 

[sm]

TR,
Naturally in my 3 bbl set with fixed choke sk/sk I changed loads. If birds were really close I'd use 9s, even soft shot 9s,though I really rarely use anything but hard shot, for first shot. 2nd shot was skeet load of target 8s. I just adapted like when all we had was fixed full chokes. Those soft irregular pellets really open up even in 28 ga.

I'd go with SK/IC if it were me. Sounds like these birds may have to be "kicked up". Now in the open and wild birds-If I had choke tubes I'd pocket an extra one a bit tighter ,maybe, depending on cover , temp, how flush...etc. Since my chokes are fixed, I have to change loads...then again I don't need a wrench and can't lose a wrench or tubes

drool...

 

[Bowlcut]

Well since no one is giving ya much help on the recipies....let the fat kid that knows how to cook to point ya in the right direction.

Click me !!!

the bbq quail looks good, or maybe the cheese stuffed....mmmm ok now whats for supper

 

[Dave McCracken]

TR, I've shot cleanup myself, and like Gene Hill, have shot at field trials where they want the birds dead rat now. Lots of choke and heavy loads are SOP.

This is different. If these are like most preserve birds, shot opps will be very short. I'd go with .000 and 005 constrictions, and have a .010" tube on hand JIC. Soft 8s sound good here also.

As for the new AAs, I'm no fan. They seem OK on longevity, but require too much adjustment. And they do get dirty fast. Much prefer the STSs, which the Hull Elf keeps giving me. He put another 200 under my pillow night before last. I've 5 or 600 once fired and the 200 hull batch I use for trap loads going strong. Being of a cautious nature, I load 6 or 7 times and trash.

Also, I could be a Hull Gull and scavenge at PGC. They've enough rookies there that STS hulls are not hard to come by.

My last OLD AAs are taking their last trip to the skeet field next week, it'll be STS from now on.

And Bowlcut, try that simple fried quail recipe....

 

[TrapperReady]

Dave - I envy your access to a personal Hull Elf. I've got a few thousand STS hulls which I bought new, shot and saved. They've all been reloaded a number of times, and I'm just starting to have some wear out. As I fill the boxes, the ones that look a little ragged get the bottom of the brass covered in black marker, so I know to toss them after firing.

It seems the Hull Gulls are particularly effective around here, and that the STS hulls are preferred. A couple years ago, you'd find STS hulls laying about, but folks were pretty good about picking up the AAs. Now, it's the reverse. I've still got probably 1000 AAs in the basement, but if I ever run out, all I need to do is shoot a round of clays and do some scavenging.

BTW, thanks to all for their advice in this thread! I'm packing the gear right now, and will be in the fields tomorrow. I'm going to pick up a disposable camera and make sure to take some pics, which should be posted by Monday night. I'm pretty sure I know what we'll be having for lunch on Sunday! Drool...

Have a good weekend!

 

[Dave McCracken]

TR, he's been of immense help, for other reasons besides hulls. And I'm looking forward to post op report and pics.

For those who must labor throught life sans Elf, I recommend this approach.

Find a good shooting load for your shotgun and buy in bulk. Bulk is as much as you can afford in one purchase. Shoot it up, reload the empties until the crimps get a bit ragged. Load them one last time, toss them and start over.

Another is to talk to the trappers at your friendly neighborhood range. Many of them are Hull Gulls and supplement the pittances paid by the range by collecting and selling used hulls. Quality varies, but oft once fired name brands are available for $0.04 or so. The AAs I'm now finishing up were bought this way.

 

[45auto]

I've used the new style AA last year and loaded them about 15 times with great results... in 12 gauge. I used to pitch the old style at 5-6.

This year I am reading and hearing bad things about splitting, hull seperations, etc so I don't know what's going on with them.

I did switch to STS, couldn't find AA's at the moment I needed them, and like them very much, using Remington wads anyway. I have about 9-10 reloads through the hulls now and they look great. Perhaps in the spring I'll try the chrono and see how they are at 15+. We will see!!

 

[Dave McCracken]

I could use the new style, but I'd have to reset things on the MEC. Too much work for the return, IMO.

I usually pitch after 7 reloads. Could go lots more but with hulls so plentiful here, why?

 

[45auto]

If hulls are plentiful there would be no reason to load them that many times.

For some reason the last several years, I've had a harder time finding hulls when I need them, at least without sending away for them. It seems more amd more people are shooting 'promo' loads and my easy supply of good hulls has dried up.

I'm going to stick with the STS also.