Updating NFA Trust

[Praxidike]

I've read Robert's thread on NFA Trust, but I have a question. With the upcoming change to the process, I'm wanting to purchase a suppressor as well as SBR a rifle or two. I do not have the funds to do all of that and to pay a lawyer to draw up a trust for each item.

My question is, is it possible and would it be a good idea to use a free DIY gun trust to get all my beneficiaries in place now, and then have an actual lawyer redo, fine tune, the trust it as my income permits considering all the players stay in the same position?

 

[pjeski]

You don't need a trust for each item. One trust, many items. (If that's what you meant by "draw up a trust for each item.")

IMHO, get the trust done right the first time.

 

[yugorpk]

Now is not the time to ponder. If it were me I'd do the free trust ( because thats all you need ) , sell my baby brother or sister and get enough cash to buy whatever silencer you want now and a couple of AR receivers to SBR. Theres $600 in stamps. You have until July under the current regs.

I know SBR's arent actually SBR until the are complete but you'll have the receivers registered and you can buy the parts to turn them into guns later.

 

[Praxidike]

,

Now is not the time to ponder. If it were me I'd do the free trust ( because thats all you need ) , sell my baby brother or sister and get enough cash to buy whatever silencer you want now and a couple of AR receivers to SBR. Theres $600 in stamps. You have until July under the current regs.

I know SBR's arent actually SBR until the are complete but you'll have the receivers registered and you can buy the parts to turn them into guns later.

Didnt think about just doing the receivers. Good idea.

Do I have until July to submit my paperwork, or doI have to have everything approved before then?

 

[pjeski]

If it's in the system before July 13, it's good to go.

 

[Ryanxia]

Another idea if you're really trying to save up front costs (and assuming State law allows) is to submit for an SBR on say an AR15 receiver that YOU make (not a factory one). Then, whenever you have the time/money, buy an 80% lower and finish it yourself. Kind of a pain in my opinion but if it's between being able to get an SBR in or not, then I'd say it's worth it. You can always have 'help' finishing it as long as you are the one actually making it.

And as pjeski said, just have to have submitted before deadline.

 

[yugorpk]

An Anderson AR receiver is a commodity item trading at less that $40 right now. I can understand the need to get SOMETHING in the system but registering a receiver that you havent made is on dicey legal ground for one thing and doesnt make much economic sense either.

Sell your plasma, collect cans, set up a lemonade stand. Theres other stuff I would recommend to make quick money for gun parts and stamps but this is the High Road and I'd get slapped by the mods...again.

 

[Ryanxia]

An Anderson AR receiver is a commodity item trading at less that $40 right now. I can understand the need to get SOMETHING in the system but registering a receiver that you havent made is on dicey legal ground for one thing and doesnt make much economic sense either.

A lot of people make their own receivers, why would you think it would be 'on dicey legal ground? You can't start making it until it's approved anyway, just like making your own suppressor.

Although I agree just getting an Anderson or something is the way to go. It's just always good to know your options.

 

[yugorpk]

Technically you need a serialized receiver BEFORE you submit a form to convert it to SBR status.

 

[Ryanxia]

Technically you need a serialized receiver BEFORE you submit a form to convert it to SBR status.

I know that's the case when converting an existing Title 1 firearm to a Title 2 (NFA) item but are you sure that is required when creating a Title 2 firearm from scratch?

I'm not aware of a law that states you have to create a Title 2 firearm as a Title 1 first and THEN submit for Title 2. The form does ask you what the serial number will be but it does when making your own suppressor too which obviously isn't made ahead of time.

 

[yugorpk]

You cannot "make" a title 2 from a title 1 weapon that doesnt exist yet. I'm sure you can do anything until you get caught but several rulings from MG cases do exist. The suppressor analogy would be the exception.

Or maybe you can. Who knows. Might be worth a tech letter but that would take too much time.

 

[Praxidike]

Not a huge issue to buy the $50 80% receivers before sending in the paper work.

If I create one myself (which is more appealing), could I ever sell it? I've read that if you SBR a pistol or a rifle, you can un-SBR it by mailing the ATF a letter, and then sell it as a regular firearm.

If I went the 80% wrought, could I register it as a pistol, and still have the option to sell it as such should I every want to get rid of it years down the line?

 

[Ryanxia]

Any time you file a form 1 to make an SBR (Title 2) from a regular rifle (Title 1) that's exactly what you're doing.

In any case, I feel bad for hijacking Praxidike's original post. Yugorpk if you happen to come across any law that states what you're claiming please forward it along to me as that would be a surprise to many people, but I don't think that's the case.

Praxidike - It's definitely worth getting at least one receiver in. They are lots of fun.

 

[pjeski]

I don't think it needs a letter. In general, if there is not a law or rule against it, you can do it.

 

[Praxidike]

Any time you file a form 1 to make an SBR (Title 2) from a regular rifle (Title 1) that's exactly what you're doing.

In any case, I feel bad for hijacking Praxidike's original post. Yugorpk if you happen to come across any law that states what you're claiming please forward it along to me as that would be a surprise to many people, but I don't think that's the case.

Praxidike - It's definitely worth getting at least one receiver in. They are lots of fun.

Don't feel bad. I don't now much about this process. I've learned a lot from your little debate/discussion.

 

[yugorpk]

Not a huge issue to buy the $50 80% receivers before sending in the paper work.

If I create one myself (which is more appealing), could I ever sell it? I've read that if you SBR a pistol or a rifle, you can un-SBR it by mailing the ATF a letter, and then sell it as a regular firearm.

If I went the 80% wrought, could I register it as a pistol, and still have the option to sell it as such should I every want to get rid of it years down the line?

You dont actually have to tell the ATF you are selling the rifle ( after it has been turned into a title 1 gun ) or receiver . They "request" that you do but it is not a requirement by law. You can sell it either way as title 1 or title 2. Needs the usual information engraved but that would have been engraved when you built it as an SBR. Keep in mind if you do (spend more money than an actual receiver costs) build one from a 80% you'll need to do more engraving than if you started with a (much cheaper) pre-made receiver.