Usefullness of 30-30 in "Modern Combat"

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shevrock

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I really didn't want to ask this question, but. how useful would a 30-30 cartridge be in a More modern combat situation going from city to longer ranges constantly. I know many people love their 30-30s' but i still wonder how it would hold up with ore modern cartridges and rifles. I also know 1 man who knows how to use a simple deer rifle is more effective than three men who just had "modern firepower" thrown to them 20 minutes ago. So i figure the best way for this whole debate [as i'm sure that's where it'll end up] will be better served in a technical standpoint.

So what do you think?
 
well, it is not suited for use in semi automatic weapons, a big disadvantage in modern combat, and uses RN bullets, making the effective range (and the accuracy might be suffering in some guns) much shorter than the oppisitions weapons. A lot of recoil (for the ballsitics), and limited mag capacity would not help too.
 
As in for military, or you repelling invaders? 30/30 will kill ya dead. If you are a good shot with your rifle, you are lethal with 30/30. I don't see it being employed soon by the military, but if you needed to defend your property and all you have is a 30/30, you're not in a bad spot.
 
i'd feel quite fine with a marlin levergun in 30/30 and plenty of ammo for defending the homestead. it's more about tactics and deployment than hardware.
 
It was more a random thought than anything important. Although i still do alot of random righting for school, i like to be technically accurate. although as said that wasn't the reason.
i guess it would be of a militia application though. maybe it's effectiveness,cartridge wise, against body armour.
 
Lots of moving parts for no advantage compared to semi auto combat rifles. This is if we're talking about sustaining an army... It's not easy to field strip and replace main components without tools, doesn't stand up well to having contact with muck or sand. One last consideration, alluded to in a previous post, is the limited range of the cartridge. In an exterior environment, particularly outside of an urban setting, it's a bad thing when your enemy's weapons out range your own.

I'm not sure what you mean by "militia" application. Fine for a bunch of overweight bubbas getting camoed up and walking through the woods of Michigan or the borders of Arizona. Sufficient but not preferable (for the reasons outlined above) for a trained small unit to conduct operations.

Still, for a civilian owner there's not many situations it won't cover.

As for body armor, I won't go into specifics except to say that with hard armor a person will be okay and may be out of the fight after being hit with most rifle rounds. With soft armor the round may or may not penetrate, but they're more than likely out of the fight if hit with a rifle round.
 
If by modern combat, you mean military-type operations, then it doesn't have any particular usefulness. If by modern combat you mean as a self defense or SHTF round, then it has plenty of merit.

In the context of individual protection, far too often people fall prey to the idea that you need to have some sort of SWAT uber-gear in order to protect yourself. Nothing wrong with that, but the fact of the matter is that you don't have to go in that direction to be perfectly well-armed.

The .30-30 is still a pretty common thing to see in certain parts of the country. Certainly, if your survival plan rotates around shooting game or something (which is far, far more likely than repelling hoards of Crips) the .30-30 is far more useful than many other rifles I can think of, black or otherwise. Also, it is quite effective against man.

Anyway, I guess that is my take. A good lever action in .30-30, particularly a carbine, will serve you quite well.
 
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.30-30 as in lever action Marlin or Winchester?

possible advantages?

:scrutiny: Ammo in every Wal-Mart and country hardware store

:scrutiny: No magazines to fumble with or lose

:scrutiny: Load on the move

:scrutiny: Simple operation

270024921.gif


Long barreled Sniper Versions Available :cool:
337856701.gif
 
.30-30 as in lever action Marlin or Winchester?

possible advantages?

Ammo in every Wal-Mart and country hardware store

No magazines to fumble with or lose

Load on the move

Simple operation
Click to expand...

You've just described my SKS...

Except I can still get ammo for that at $200/1k.

Makes practicing easier.
 
As long as the bullet can reach it's target, the weapon is reliable, and the person using it knows what they are doing; the .30-30 would make an OK combat weapon.
 
Some departments authorize the Winchester 94 as a patrol carbine, IIRC. It's a lot more visual friendly than any EBR and for those sensitive administrators, it's a good compromise.

I wouldn't feel undergunned with a M94 lever gun.
 
I'd rather have a semi-auto, but it would definetly be sufficient in a pinch.

I KNOW I would be more useful with a 3030 levergun than 3 or so newbs who just got handed ARs or AKs. But then again I'd be even better if I had an AR, AK, m1a, etc.
 
I'll take my model 94 over a bunch of thugs with pistols and urban commandos with black rifles.
Click to expand...

I'll second that.

Also I would not want to be shot at or hit with a 30-30.

C
 
The 30-30 is still ballistically equivalent to any modern combat load such as the 7.62 Russian so there's no reason to not field it if that was the only choice.
 
If that's all you have, then go for it. I'd personally take an SKS over a 30-30, same ballistics and terminal effects in a simple-to-use semi-auto package, with no magazine to fumble with or loose :neener:.
 
It's far from ideal, but as a militia type weapon, it has it's advantages.
presumably, whoever is bringing it knows how to use. Ammo is easily found just about anywhere, and inexpensive enough that the militia member can stock up on it and buy enough to keep in practice, even if they don't reload. Fairly easy to keep loading ammo for it; Lee loader and bullet molds can keep it going a little easier than some other choices if in dire circumstances.

Downsides are of course rate of fire/reloading. Also carrying all that ammo. One can easily get some carrying gear for mag fed weapons. A lever rifle is going to need ammo belt/bandoleer, and it better hold on to those rounds really well or they're all gone after running about in a fight.
 
Are you talking about the round or the rifle?

The lever action rifle has it's flaws, but you have to remember, many of the early machine guns used in the Americas were chambered for the .30-30. They did some damage, you bet!
 
Briansmithwins

One correction about the SKS when you said "You've just described my SKS"....

You cannot load an SKS on the go as you do with a lever action...in order to reload an SKS you need to open the bolt and get your head away from the gun sights...a lever action allow you to stay on the target ready to fire and reload at the same time without even looking at the receiver (more intuitive, faster and "eye free" reloading procedure)...not so in an SKS

And if the bolt of the SKS doesn't stay open (similarly to the AK) it can lead to a very stressful situation if you are outnumbered in the middle of a gun fight......I don't remember if the SKS shares this feature with the AK.

I hear all the time by some people that the 30-30 is the ballistic equivalent of the 7,62 X 39....it is definitely not.
The 7,62 is a 1500 ft/lb load with a 123 gr bullet....the 30-30 is just shy of 2000 ft/lb with a bullet weight of 150 gr and up. Even in a 20" carbine (like the vast majority of them) you do not lose much compared to the published data..actually I witnessed some chrono testing where the twenty inches guns did not lose almost any speed.

Especially if you use the Hornady leveraction ammo, even at long range the 7,62 X 39 cannot hold a candle to a 30-30

A lever action 30 WCF (especially a Marlin) is a fantastic survival rifle in an apocalyptic scenario...ammo and reloading equipment/supplies everywhere, very manoeuvrable and handy, one of the highest rate of fire (only slightly second to a pump action) for a manual reloading long gun and you can drop pretty much anything in North America if you do your part...

It's incredible how some people nowdays think of a 2000 ft/lb power class round as some sort of pop gun or just a little bit more......get real folks...

Definitely I do not want to get hit by a flat point 170 gr. slug coming from a 30-30...people dropped grizzly bears with these...
 
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