VA Lobby Day Rally - Live Team Feed

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Most folks, apart from fervent anti-gunners, are able to distinguish how a person looks versus their actions. Kudos to the VCDL for pulling off the event and those who participated despite all of the fear mongering and disdain thrown on participants by the media.

I suspect that the chilling actions by the Gov and media are responsible for a diminished turnout and the appearance of one in media accounts. Goodluck with recalling King Ralphie and his band of executive Sheriffs of Nottingham.
 
12-year THR member here. Own more guns than I can count.

These militia dudes playing soldier are embarrassing and make me pine for at least a little bit of sensible gun control. Not looking for a debate - won't even see any replies. But seeing this childishness motivated me to at least state my piece.
Agreed... They just wanted attention IMHO and look silly. Even VCDL asked that these embarrassments not play dress up and bring long guns. Of course, just as VCDL predicted, these men playing dress up are what's plastered across the media. The photos of these men are what the topic of debate is and what the general public on non-gun related sites and social media.

I'm looking for a debate on the matter either. Nothing said will change my mind, and it's people like this who are one of the major reasons behind Walmart stopping ammo sales and dozens of other retailers and restaurants banning guns. Just because you can doesn't mean you should...
 
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Agreed... They just wanted attention IMHO and look silly. Even VCDL asked that these embarrassments not play dress up and bring long guns. Of course, just as VCDL predicted, these men playing dress up are what's plastered across the media. The photos of these men are what the topic of debate is and what the general public on non-gun related sites and social media.

I'm looking for a debate on the matter either. Nothing said will change my mind, and it's people like this who are one of the major reasons behind Walmart stopping ammo sales and dozens of other retailers and restaurants banning guns. Just because you can doesn't mean you should...

If I served in a spit hole for a couple of years with bullets whizzing passed my head, I might dress that way for a gun rights rally too. Everybody is different so I try not to judge people that have been through hell. If somebody is playing wanna be soldier and has never served, that's a totally different thing and we don't need that.
 
If I served in a spit hole for a couple of years with bullets whizzing passed my head, I might dress that way for a gun rights rally too. Everybody is different so I try not to judge people that have been through hell. If somebody is playing wanna be soldier and has never served, that's a totally different thing and we don't need that.
Wannabe soldier or wannabe citizen sending a message that they are prepared to defend their rights?

To me, those people are very different.

Just so happens they dress similar...

you don't have to be a soldier to be prepared. Or own the equipment that will be handy should the worst come to pass.

and your strongest supporters of the 2nd are those guys/gals 'playing dress up'

"Better to be a warrior in a garden then a gardener in a war."
 
Well. I see both sides of what is becoming a debate on dress/carry. No matter what you say; you're debating. I respect posters from both sides, as well. You know that I do. I am just glad that you took the time to go there, in freezing cold and stand up for yourself and for me and I am glad that you kept your cool.

I am proud of you.
 
Wannabe soldier or wannabe citizen sending a message that they are prepared to defend their rights?

To me, those people are very different.

Just so happens they dress similar...

you don't have to be a soldier to be prepared. Or own the equipment that will be handy should the worst come to pass.

and your strongest supporters of the 2nd are those guys/gals 'playing dress up'

"Better to be a warrior in a garden then a gardener in a war."

I see your point but the problem I have with average Joe dressing like a soldier is it implies that he's served. I haven't served and I don't want anybody to be mislead that I have.
 
I wasn't there. For all who did go, a great thank you. There are things I liked and things I didn't like about the rally. It takes people doing something to make change. If I had been there I would have put my spin on it. But I wasn't there. So, who am I to judge others.

Thanks to those that took the time and made their statement. I wish I could have joined you.

Be safe!
 
I don't have an issue with it other than there's a time and place. I wrote my earlier comment before I seen that mods and others on the forum dressed up as well. I don't mean any disrespect.

The people who dressed up to send a message did just that, but the message they sent doesn't gain our side any support or sympathy form others whose vote we need. All it does is get them high fives from like minded gun owners while turning others off and taking the focus away from the reason we were out there. That is, the message those who where dressed up and carrying long guns think they were sending is lost in translation... Not that the point matters to them...
 
I see your point but the problem I have with average Joe dressing like a soldier is it implies that he's served. I haven't served and I don't want anybody to be mislead that I have.
No. it doesn't.

I don't think even vets see a dude in armor and think 'he's served'.

A branch flag might imply that. or a tattoo. Or what comes out of your mouth.

Even today what retired military people have armor... and wear it out and about?

I'd wager that far more 'regular dudes' own and wear armor than vets these days. Many of the vets I know never want to wear armor again.

Not only that, most of the carriers I see are not military issue.

You and I have not served. We don't tell people we have. We don't tell people about what serving is like. We don't wear flags or say "semper fi" to people.

No reason for someone to assume we have served.

And if people DO assume we have served... well when you assume you make an *** out of U and ME.

ETA: that's like assuming because you own an AR15 that you have served.

Nobody thinks that.
 
No. it doesn't.

Nobody thinks that.

Ok again I see your point about sending a message but I believe most people will think a person in full gear has served. That's why I wouldn't do it personally. I wasn't trying to offend anybody who did.
 
Ok again I see your point about sending a message but I believe most people will think a person in full gear has served. That's why I wouldn't do it personally. I wasn't trying to offend anybody who did.
I'm not offended, I don't think anyone took it that way.

it's just that the number of folks "kitting up" is way higher than it was just 5 years ago.

folks are buying armor at unprecedented rates.

I don't have any yet, but it's on the list for someday.
 
< Checking to see if I am still on THR forum >

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OK, everyone take a time out and have a seat ... and let's talk/think this through and HEAR ME OUT ... AS THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!

First of all, Doc is a veteran and a fellow medic :thumbup: who is a full supporter of 2A and smart/intelligent enough to not act irresponsibly.

Do you know why people desire to become medics and ACTUALLY complete the training and not drop out? First thing they did for my field medic training was to show us an actual combat footage of Vietnam where an entire squad was ambushed and gunned down with body parts shot off in a sea of bullets and explosions. We didn't notice but there were trashcans next to each desk and many of the students used them. It's a horrific sight that no one should ever see that made me sick to my stomach and my blood boil.

After we took a break and gathered our composure (with some still shaking from the horror), the instructor calmly said, "This job is not for everyone and it is perfectly OK if you are not able to do this. But when the injured yell out 'Medic!', you must respond and tend to the injury and/or retrieve the injured while fighting your way out ... Are you prepared and able to do this? ... There's the door."

Sitting there as a young 19 year old, I had to think hard and be honest with myself as to reasons why I wanted to become a medic asking, "Can I do this?" What made me continue with field medic training was the thought of many soldiers from colonial days to WWII to modern day wars who willingly sacrificed so others can enjoy the freedom and life afforded to all of us. My desire to become a medic was in their honor and reason why I volunteered to deploy to the first Gulf War. Believe me, it's a job not many can do willingly.

So let that sink in before making comments about Doc.

OK, moving on to why Doc dressed in battle dress/gear while sporting an AR15 (And a colorful shirt) - He made himself a walking billboard to popularize the use of AR15s by law abiding responsible citizens.

Over the decades, there has been a quiet movement to honor and fulfill the US Constitution, particularly the Second Amendment. Under increasing pressure of so called "Assault Weapons" and "military style" firearms ban (Funny and illogical as just about every type of firearm has been used in battle ;)), federal judges and Supreme Court justices (The enforcers and backstop for our freedom, liberty and rights) have not only argued but ruled that modern firearms in common use are protected by the Second Amendment.
  • First Amendment protects modern types of communication such as internet, email, online forums, social media, etc. that did not exist at the time of writing of the US Constitution. In the same manner, Second Amendment protects modern types of "arms" that did not exist at the time of writing of the US Constitution - Justice Scalia in DC v Heller used firearms in "common use" and application of the Second Amendment to modern types of firearms and ammunition storage devices just as the First Amendment applies to modern types of communication - https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf
So law abiding responsible citizens seen by the public using AR15s and other "modern" firearms to include large capacity ammunition storage devices called "magazines" along with body armor (ballistic helmets and vests, etc.) popularize and fulfills the notion of "common use". Many people may not recall that body armors were available only to law enforcement in the past but they have increasingly become more popular and in "common use" and there is no longer restrictions to law abiding citizens.

And when I saw Doc's colorful shirt, my immediate response was "Smart move" as my "progressive Bernie supporter" son makes tie dye shirts yet he is a staunch supporter of gun rights and 2A. Doc could have just worn battle dress/gear and helmet along with body armor but he CHOSE to wear a colorful shirt to APPEAL to people from greater walks of life and to soften the public image of a 2A activist seen with an AR15.

Over the decades, I have engaged and converted many feminists, liberals, Democrats and LGBTQ members who were anti gun. But instead of thumping my chest, I appealed to them from the notion of gun rights as right to self defense and suggested that crime, especially rape and violent crime, exists in every city and town (How can you argue with that). And as increasing number of them became victimized or knew someone who were, one by one, they became gun owners and after I trained them to shoot, many became conceal carry permit holders and supporters of gun rights/2A.

So when "2A activists" want to open carry with or without BDU/body armor, it is to support the narrative on "popular and in common use" as many judges and justices have and are pushing for in support of gun rights and 2A.

For Heller 2 case, then judge Kavanaugh wrote an awesome 50 page dissent why semi-auto rifles and registration were unconstitutional - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...t-civil-rights-movement.862179/#post-11361998

Now as Supreme Court justice Kavanaugh, I can bet you that he wants to remove the ban on "Assault Weapons" and "military style" firearms as popular and in common use "arms" expanding the Heller ruling - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...t-civil-rights-movement.862179/#post-11362014

And as expressed by this Second Amendment scholar, various "Assault Weapons" and magazine ban "won't pass constitutional muster" and popular and "common use" firearms and magazines will prevail in the Supreme Court that is turning "Originalist" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...t-civil-rights-movement.862179/#post-11362077

So, think things over and decide if you want to help support the "popular" and "in common use" narrative and push the courts have made for our eventual Supreme Court showdown with justices Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.

BTW, Doc braved the freezing cold and helped coordinate many rally activities all the while doing "something" to support 2A - There was a stack of signatures collected that went to VA capitol with him along with many people he encouraged to attend the rally and fund raising for VCDL, etc. etc. What have you done for 2A lately?
 
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10 reasons why we should own AR15s and popularize them for gun rights/2A's future - https://thefederalist.com/2018/12/12/top-10-reasons-ar-15/

"7. The AR-15 is the rifle most commonly used for defensive firearm training.
Some people believe they are skilled with a gun because they own one. Fortunately, most never find themselves in situations in which that assumption costs them their lives. Anyone who is serious about being capable of using firearms proficiently for defensive purposes should take classes with instructors who specialize in defensive skills training. When you attend such classes, almost all of your instructors and fellow students will be using AR-15s.

8. The AR-15 is the rifle most commonly used for marksmanship competitions.
Some gun hobbyists think competitions are important for their own sake. However, from a defense-related perspective, competitions have value to the extent that they support training objectives and provide a venue for testing and validating product improvements. [I refer to popularity of 3-Gun matches and increasing popularity of Pistol Caliber Carbines which have direct application for home defense, especially for multiple attackers with larger than pistol magazine capacity with greater terminal velocity]

10. The more Americans who own AR-15s, the more likely the Supreme Court will consider them “in common use.”
As I explained in an essay for The Federalist earlier this year, in Heller the Supreme Court incorrectly said that the Constitution protects the right of the people to keep and bear only such arms as are “in common use.” One of the many problems with that idea is that no matter how many AR-15s there are and how many Americans own them, judges and justices who don’t want you to have them can claim that they aren’t common enough to be considered “common.” However, until that portion of Heller is corrected, the more Americans who own AR-15s, the ever so slightly harder it will be for those judges and justices to do that with a straight face."
 
bdickens ,

Thank you for your service.
In the interest of disclosure , I did not serve.
With all due respect , I find your reference to "running around in the woods all dressed up playing army." to be ... disheartening?
Having said that , I respect your past service , as well as your right to refer to it in whatever way you wish.
 
Keep in mind everyone that we are at "war" with the antis fighting many battle fronts.

"Popular" and "in common use" is one such front where we can help and many people are doing just that by buying and building millions of ARs and variants and PCCs and using them for recreation, sporting/hunting, match shooting and home defense along with "popular" and "in common use" of large capacity magazines.

Attending rallies and being visible as law abiding responsible citizens sporting these "popular" and "in common use" arms will help push our narrative in growing public support while being friendly/calm/gathered to provide intelligent and thoughtful interviews on camera will do a lot more to win public support.

Our "battle" is to show the public that gun owners are fun loving, law abiding, decent people who are not to be feared but embraced.

I go out of my way to be overly friendly/generous/accommodating to particularly feminists/liberals/Democrats/socialists/progressives/LGBTQ who are interested in self defense and go out of my way to "Pay It Forward" (wife and I have a sizable ongoing PIF fund for retirement for this and other charitable purposes) for range sessions to happen to introduce them to firearms always covering the full cost of ammunition. When they try to pay me or compensate for my expenses, I simply ask them to "Pay It Forward" to someone else in their lives who deserve firearms training for self defense. And I see more shooters show up for the next range session and all of them wanting to buy guns and build their ARs/PCCs next. :D

When they are plinking away lightweight 16"/18" ARs with CMMG 22LR conversion bolts and PCCs, they are delighted that they can shoot fast and accurate and HAVING FUN. Once they consider shooting a FUN HOBBY with useful skill for self defense, we have more allies for life in support of gun rights and 2A, particularly younger generations in their 20s.
 
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Fun loving fellas armed to the hilt wearing body armor un afraid :D
And don't forget the colorful shirt. ;):D

I am so going to wear one of my son's tie dye shirts over my BDUs on my next rally I attend. Never know, son may join me wearing the same along with his progressive friends we go shooting with (I will promise them juicy steak dinners as an enticement). :evil:

They will probably make signs like "Gun rights for Bernie supporters". :rofl:
 
Attending rallies and being visible as law abiding responsible citizens sporting these "popular" and "in common use" arms will help push our narrative in growing public support while being friendly/calm/gathered to provide intelligent and thoughtful interviews on camera will do a lot more to win public support.

Guys dressed like attendees at the rally appear routinely around Austin in similar apparel. They were on the Riverside drive overpass the other day. Over time people are desensitized towards it because of that repeated exposure to average people bearing arms in casual settings. Same for open carry of swords once Texas legalized that. Fewer people take notice, because it becomes daily/weekly/monthly occurrence and is ultimately a ho-hum affair like the rally because no one is really misbehaving. Just another day on the streets of austin....

I'm pretty tired of the mainstream making me feel like I have some shameful hobby because I own weapons which can be used for active resistance. Treating the LGS as though it were some porno shop full of filth and obscenity. Worst of it though, other gun owners expecting you to only break out the fun stuff for rights exercise in the deep recesses of one's home or if you were a super soldier in a past life, only then can you have body armor publicly. Personally I hate the stuff. Hot, heavy, and hard on the knees. But, It's time to make plate carriers mainstream garb at rallies. It would be good to develop a standard of dress for future events that shows solidarity among gun owners. Plate carriers are a must considering the rising stakes and a need for us to bring the common use equipment into the mainstream public eye. 25000 men in similar uniform, even tie dye shirts, would present a powerful, united front.
 
Guys dressed like attendees at the rally appear routinely around Austin in similar apparel. They were on the Riverside drive overpass the other day. Over time people are desensitized towards it because of that repeated exposure to average people bearing arms in casual settings.
And if gun owners participate in visible charity/public works like cleaning efforts and helping feed the homeless while in BDU, more positive press? ;)

Heck, some of the homeless areas in various cities are so dangerous that being armed with body armor may not be a bad idea. :D

other gun owners expecting you to only break out the fun stuff for rights exercise in the deep recesses of one's home or if you were a super soldier in a past life, only then can you have body armor publicly.
I was actually hoping to see more hunting/camo gear, especially due to cold weather to show support for "sporting" use of firearms as AR type variants are often used for hunting.
 
And if gun owners participate in visible charity/public works like cleaning efforts and helping feed the homeless while in BDU, more positive press? ;)

Heck, some of the homeless areas in various cities are so dangerous that being armed with body armor may not be a bad idea. :D

The Austin mayor is doing his best to make it worse! There have been some knife wielding homeless recently so you are correct about needing protection. :thumbup:
 
@bikerdoc
All kidding aside I appreciate your standing up for all of our ( even though you look ridiculous) just kidding...
2 nd Amendment rights. My uncle Rod was an American hero who gave his life so I may be free. I’t is my honor to share a couple of his letters from Nam as a look back into the daily life of a soldier and for those who don’t “get it “
Well as I’m told they said in Nam ( it don’t mean nothing)
Much respect Doc
Jim
 

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And if gun owners participate in visible charity/public works like cleaning efforts and helping feed the homeless while in BDU, more positive press?

Indeed. Adopt-a-highway comes to mind. You even get a sign.

I was actually hoping to see more hunting/camo gear, especially due to cold weather to show support for "sporting" use of firearms as AR type variants are often used for hunting.

Noted. The commercial brands can be much better than mil patterns depending where you use it. Mossy oak and real tree are actually my favorite patterns for my area.

The Austin mayor is doing his best to make it worse!

All I can say there is "three cheers for governor Abbott!"
 
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