Vietnam tomahawk?

[dogtown tom]

One of my customers brought by his "Vietnam tomahawk" yesterday. He bought it from a friend in the '70's and appeared to be a genuine Lagana/American Tomahawk Co.

It has me wanting one, but I'm not paying the price of the genuine Lagana.
Cold Steel used to sell a Taiwanese copy but they are discontinued.

Anyone know why Cold Steel discontinued that model?

 

[hso]

Anyone know why Cold Steel discontinued that model?

Because they sold enough of them that it wasn't economical to produce more after the market was saturated.

 

[dogtown tom]

Because they sold enough of them that it wasn't economical to produce more after the market was saturated.

That doesn't make sense.
If "saturated" NO ONE would be making tomahawks.....and there are plenty of them.
As far as "wasn't economical".....I doubt it cost more than $5 to produce.

 

[Fiv3r]

I think what he means is that the Vietnam style of hawk popularity waned a bit. I think there was a finite group of people who wanted one that didn't cost LA money at a particular time. The 'nam hawk isn't really that good of a all around user with it's upswept tip and spike. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the head and handle junction was unlike any other hawk in the CS line up with the handle hanging from the bottom up instead of top down. That made it one specialized head and handle to produce when CS has something like 6 other "traditional" hawk/handle configurations that interchange. I think those that wanted a tactical spike hawk moved on to their War Hawk that uses a polymer handle and bolt on head. That style seems to be a lot more popular than the Vietnam style when it comes to users. SOG makes several different models at low prices (even if the steel is stainless, but whatever). I think the SOG versions are probably built a bit stronger.

CS is a marketing firm first and foremost. If the bean counters figured that they could only buy them in lots of 10,000 at a profit of $9 a hawk sold to distribution but there was enough of a glut in the market that they may need to sit on 6,400 of them and sell them at near cost out of their parking lot, it doesn't make sense to purchase a bunch of things that won't sell since you can't turn a profit.

 

[bikerdoc]

In addition to what hso said, when I was with the 101st in Viet nam the tomahawk fell out of favor with the brass, after a series of incidents. Captain Tommy Taylor, son of General and Ambassador Maxwell Taylor was a big influence in it being banned from the troops.

I never had one as I thought it was a silly prop and if I had to go one on one a big knife was better. Even better have enough ammo and a 1911 so you didn't have to get that close.

 

[hso]

the Vietnam style of hawk popularity waned a bit. I think there was a finite group of people who wanted one that didn't cost LA money at a particular time.

This

 

[CeltKnight]

The Jujutsu system I've been training in for almost two decades happens to teach the tomahawk. Over the years, I have accumulated a few different designs, including a repro of the Viet Nam 'hawk. I have to say it's my least favorite to carry or use. That spike with the double edged, bladed end sticking straight out the back is GOING to get you. The sharp upward corner of the front head WILL cut you eventually as your arm swings and it's stuck in your belt. Oh, you can get a cover for it but that makes it a slow-to-deploy, two-handed affair rather than a quick out-of-the-belt weapon/tool. For spike head tomahawks, I much prefer the Cold Steel spike 'hawk. The spike is a spike, not a blade so it won't cut you and it's down-swept enough to mitigate danger to your arm as it swings by your belt when you walk (again, yes, yes, cases, protective Kydex head covers, yadda-yadda-yadda).

My CS spike 'hawk has a slightly longer than typical haft and I use it for yard work, venturing through the woods, etc. I also use it for teaching as the longer haft is easier for some of the not-quite-as-lethal applications we teach. It used to ride in my go-bag in my patrol car, too (along with other useful items: AK bayonet, crow bar, etc, etc. etc). Anyway, I think the VN tomahawks are cool from a historical perspective, but are far from the most ergonomic and useful of the breed.

 

[dogtown tom]

The Jujutsu system I've been training in for almost two decades happens to teach the tomahawk. Over the years, I have accumulated a few different designs, including a repro of the Viet Nam 'hawk. I have to say it's my least favorite to carry or use. That spike with the double edged, bladed end sticking straight out the back is GOING to get you. The sharp upward corner of the front head WILL cut you eventually as your arm swings and it's stuck in your belt. Oh, you can get a cover for it but that makes it a slow-to-deploy, two-handed affair rather than a quick out-of-the-belt weapon/tool.

I'm curious, other than in TV/movies/Jujutsu training...... where on earth is it considered a good idea to carry any sharp edged weapon on the belt and edge exposed?
Regardless of the head design, it seems incredibly stupid to carry any tomahawk or fixed blade knife with the edge unprotected.

Anyway, I think the VN tomahawks are cool from a historical perspective, but are far from the most ergonomic and useful of the breed.

I agree.

 

[CeltKnight]

I'm curious, other than in TV/movies/Jujutsu training...... where on earth is it considered a good idea to carry any sharp edged weapon on the belt and edge exposed?
Regardless of the head design, it seems incredibly stupid to carry any tomahawk or fixed blade knife with the edge unprotected.

Ouch. "Incredibly stupid" seems a bit harsh. With the right design, I've carried tomahawks and hatchets in my belt with no problems whatsoever. Poorly designed models have left scratches or nicked clothing. When I carry it, I don't want to have to go through 5 steps to get to it (if I need heavy work, I'll have an axe or hatchet ... often with no cover either). The 'hawk is for utility work, but also, for me, another self-defense item. I know it's there, I work around it and don't have a problem ... after many, many years of using them.

Nothing wrong if you want to carry a cover on yours. Also, I'm not sure just how one would carry a fixed blade knife without a sheath, but I didn't mention fixed blades, so I don't know how they even came up in this conversation.

I'd imagine the tomahawks or other sharp-edged weapons in TVs and Movies are not sharp, and aren't, for the most part, real. But I am not in the movies and I don't know how they do things. Insofar as training, just as in most weapon training, the majority of work is done with wooden or blunted tomahawks because, hey, we're serious, not crazy. It's frankly amazing how well they work for techniques other than cutting/slicing/hacking, and I'm going to assume you were not comparing serious training to the fantasy world of TV and Movies.

Anyway, if for your purposes, you want a cover on yours then by all means, it's a free country (in most places) so have at it! I have no trouble with your choice and won't even sink to pejoratives. You do you, I'll do me, and we can both be happy in our own little worlds.

 

[dogtown tom]

Ouch. "Incredibly stupid" seems a bit harsh.

Whats harsh is cutting your arm or hand because you think carrying a sharp blade exposed on your belt a good idea.

With the right design, I've carried tomahawks and hatchets in my belt with no problems whatsoever. Poorly designed models have left scratches or nicked clothing.

I don't think the problem is with the design, but method of carry. There are a number of ways to carry a sharp tool on ones belt and be able to rapidly deploy that tool/weapon one handed.

Exposed blade edge on my belt.......never.

 

[CeltKnight]

Whats harsh is cutting your arm or hand because you think carrying a sharp blade exposed on your belt a good idea.

I don't think the problem is with the design, but method of carry. There are a number of ways to carry a sharp tool on ones belt and be able to rapidly deploy that tool/weapon one handed.

Exposed blade edge on my belt.......never.

And the wonderful thing about public forums is that you can have your opinion and express it.

I can manage to carry an item with which I am highly skilled and experienced and not cut myself. I cannot speak for everyone, however.

You do you, boo.

 

[theotherwaldo]

I've never been able to convince myself to carry a Vietnam-pattern tomahawk. It always appeared to fall into the category of "pandy-bat" - a weapon that is more dangerous to the wielder than it is to the target.
The closest that I came to this was when my neighbor, the Apache medicine man Push-Meh-Ta-Ha, presented me with a flint medicine ax. I cut myself several times on this before it wound up in a kitchen drawer.
Of course, I was only three years old... .