Virginia open carry quesiton (VCDL)

[chris in va]

This is a totally neutral concern, and I hope people will be mature enough to answer likewise.

I understand that there is technically no law against or for open carry in VA save for ABC licensed establishments.

I've tried OC a few times and half the time I either get interesting looks or verbal comments.

The VCDL is a great organization and I wholeheartedly appreciate their efforts. However...

Cutting to the chase, I'm concerned that groups of open carry folks might get a law put on the books rather than make people aware of the allowance.

There have been a few instances of people complaining about "a group of armed men" sitting down for dinner or crowding a gov't office. WTOP even had a news comment on the subject. I understand a few states have some sort of regulation against 'distressing the public' or somesuch, and I just don't want to see that verbage tacked on to the already massive pile of restrictions in the Commonwealth.

Believe me, I'd *much* rather open carry freely such as in AZ than have to tuck this thing under a jacket or shirt. But as I see it, open carry is more for the times when your shirt rides up and exposes your handle than it is to make everyone's eyes pop out and start fidgeting.

Comments?

 

[skidmark]

Believe me, I'd *much* rather open carry freely such as in AZ than have to tuck this thing under a jacket or shirt. But as I see it, open carry is more for the times when your shirt rides up and exposes your handle than it is to make everyone's eyes pop out and start fidgeting.

So - Arizona has some special aura that makes folks not fidget at the sight of an openly-carried sidearm?

Sorry, Chris, that was a cheap shot. Intentional, but cheap.

I invite you to peruse www.opencarry.org and the Virginia page especially to get some ideas of why folks in the Old Dominion open carry. A lot of it has to do with your concern that "everyone's eyes [will] pop out and [they] start fidgeting."

Open carry is not restricted by any law in Virginia - as opposed to having been "made legal" by legislation. If you are going to carry in an establishment that serves alcohol for on-site consumption you must open carry. (Virginia's "restaurant ban" law :banghead::banghead

Many folks feel that in order to prevent the easily-scared people from getting a law enacted that prohibits open carry, the right to do so needs to be exercised. If enough people openly carry, folks might just get used to the idea that open carry is not threatening/dangerous/bad/evil. Maybe like what happened in Arizona?

While you are looking at the Virginia page at www.opencarry.org , look for the OCDO lunches & dinners in the NoVa area. You do not have to open carry to attend, but you will meet so fine folks who do.

BTW - as I understand it VCDL has no opinion one way or another regarding open carry. Their purpose is to protect all gun rights for all. Members of www.opencarry.org do support and encourage open carry.

stay safe.

skidmark

 

[tinygnat219]

Personally, I am against Open Carry. I think it's a silly practice that tends to draw unwanted attention. I only Open Carry when I work a gunshow for the VCDL (even then, it's an 1895 Nagant Revolver), when I dress up as a Cowboy for Cowboy Action Shooting, or I am hunting with my .44 Magnum Revolver. I also feel that there are some folks out there who like to push the envelope on this whole Open Carry thing.

You raise some good points regarding Open Carry. From what I have seen, the after effects of Open Carry are showing to be both positive and negative. Positive in the light that people just didn't know it before and are aware of it ESPECIALLY in the case of law enforcement, and negative in the light that it gives the antis ammunition about the perception of their "Wild West" predictions coming true. I also think that over time, more and more people will just get used to it and the antis' cries will simply be one more thing that they were whining about that didn't happen. I am seeing more positive than negative effects at this time.

Open Carry simply is what it is. While I personally don't agree with the practice, for a variety of reasons: identification as a potential danger by criminals, target of harassment by law enforcement, etc. I might change my mind in a few years and if I do, I want that right to be there. So, while I don't exercise this right, I will support those activists that are out there being the pioneers.

 

[ZeSpectre]

The reasons people do (or don't) open carry in VA are as widely varied as the reasons people choose different cars.

In general I don't have an issue with folks choosing to open carry as I don't believe that there is anything illegal or shameful about the ownership of firearms and it's important to fight the notion that bigotry against people who like/own firearms -simply for owning them- is anything less than prejudice. Good folks don't do bad things and carry (open or concealed) isn't going to change that at all.

On the other hand, I personally dislike "tipping my hand" and generally have a strong bias towards discrete carry. The relatively rare times I do open carry are usually because I'm making a point (or because I'm eating in an establishment that serves alcohol <sigh>).

 

[RNB65]

Cutting to the chase, I'm concerned that groups of open carry folks might get a law put on the books rather than make people aware of the allowance.

That's exactly what's going to happen. If enough folks complain about OC, then the General Assembly will eventually pass a law banning it. Or at least banning it in cities.
.

 

[ZeSpectre]

That's exactly what's going to happen. If enough folks complain about OC, then the General Assembly will eventually pass a law banning it. Or at least banning it in cities.

Which is why it's so great that 400+ WELL MANNERED folks showed up at "Lobby Day" in Richmond to air our viewpoint.

 

[John4me05]

I was on the open carry site a couple months back... But i chose to leave.. Some of what i read alarmed me... It seemed some were doing it for the shock and awe factor alone... Granted there were the fellers (and possibly ladies) that did it cause they can and it was no different than wearing a tank top in the summer but others seemed like they wanted to be the ones decked out in a tux with a cane at a beach party... While i would (and have) OCd a couple times i am with Tiny that it just isnt for me.. Im glad you an i can but its not a right i feel comfortable exercising... I draw enough attention as it is (6'8" and 380) so its hard enough for me to put people at ease as it stands now...

I applaud those of you and them that do it and act as if its nothing more than a comfy pair of slippers.... But i oppose those who feel they are in grade school and received a new pair of Air Jordans and seem to make it a point to show it off to as many people they can and are always wondering if others are jealous (in this instance scared) of them

 

[RP88]

I've seen people open-carry a few times. It doesnt bother me, but I usually dont see the point unless you work or pass through crime-ridden areas (I live in a relatively safe city, and I saw all three OCers at Wal-mart or the mall)

I also see no reason to carry just because its a right. Just because its your right doesnt mean that you should (even though you could) blatantly make it clear to others. In my opinion, doing such a thing--whether you're gay, atheist, religious, etc.--draws unnecessary trivial attention to something that nobody really cares about in the first place. It can also come off as annoying or rude, at least to me.

Of course, as said...thats just my opinion, and I can be a tad judgemental

 

[ZeSpectre]

I also see no reason to carry just because its a right. Just because its your right doesn't mean that you should

Now there we'll have to agree to disagree. A right unexercised has an awful tendency to go away.

 

[Sage of Seattle]

I also see no reason to carry just because its a right. Just because its your right doesnt mean that you should (even though you could) blatantly make it clear to others. In my opinion, doing such a thing--whether you're gay, atheist, religious, etc.--draws unnecessary trivial attention to something that nobody really cares about in the first place.

What an ill-conceived statement and highly insulting, caveat notwithstanding.

If enough folks complain about OC, then the General Assembly will eventually pass a law banning it.

So what do you care? You apparently find it useless anyway and it wouldn't touch your precious license to CC.

 

[tinygnat219]

Interesting posts regarding OC today. Looking forward to seeing what else is going on.

 

[novaDAK]

banning OC would then take away the right of self defense to those ineligible for a CC license.

Yes, there are non-criminals that can't get a CHP in VA.

 

[RP88]

What an ill-conceived statement and highly insulting, caveat notwithstanding.

thats why I said it was an opinion, not a fact or a good idea.

 

[John4me05]

If you click on the vid you will see why it wouldnt be good for me to OC... It shows how my size is a diadvantage to making people comfortable

 

[Sans Authoritas]

As a person posted previously, why are you worried about people who open carry suddenly being prohibited from open carry, if you don't think people should open carry? As it is, you will gain nothing from being afraid to exercise a right. Personally, the more people I see carrying firearms in public, the better I feel.

The more people who are exposed to the fact that someone who is not a policeman is standing 5 feet away and carrying a firearm is not going to suddenly open fire when he gets upset about some trivial thing, the better.

As for cops hassling people? The cops are the problem: not the people being hassled.

-Sans Authoritas

 

[chris in va]

So - Arizona has some special aura that makes folks not fidget at the sight of an openly-carried sidearm?

Sorry, Chris, that was a cheap shot. Intentional, but cheap.

No no, not trying to make a cheap shot here. Heck you know me, I've shot with you guys and had a couple OC dinners.

But I'm basing the AZ thing on what I've read. It's much more OC friendly than VA. Totally different world out there.

EDIT: As you can see, I'm not the only one concerned about the issue.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum7/6041.html

 

[Sage of Seattle]

banning OC would then take away the right of self defense to those ineligible for a CC license.

Yes, there are non-criminals that can't get a CHP in VA.

Yes, there are non-criminals that can't get a CHP in every other state that issues permits as well as Virginia.

But you see it's kind of a catch-22 then, isn't it? If one open carries, well then, that's just gonna scare people into passing laws against open carry. But for those who have no choice but to carry openly, they will scare people into passing laws against carrying openly.

So, I guess for those who cannot lawfully conceal carry, they'll just have to leave their pistol at home, otherwise they'll lose the lawful ability to carry a pistol openly. Yeah. That makes sense.

I guess since either way, some people are going to be disarmed, I say force the legislature to grow a pair and try to pass that kind of law. After all, they don't have to do any work if they just cow you into submission, right?

 

[skidmark]

Quote:
So - Arizona has some special aura that makes folks not fidget at the sight of an openly-carried sidearm?

Sorry, Chris, that was a cheap shot. Intentional, but cheap.

No no, not trying to make a cheap shot here. Heck you know me, I've shot with you guys and had a couple OC dinners.

But I'm basing the AZ thing on what I've read. It's much more OC friendly than VA. Totally different world out there.

MY guess is that Arizona folks have seen more open carry that Virginia folks, and through that experience know that it is not implicitly a threat to their peace and safety.

That is what some folks in Virginia are trying to accomplish by openly carrying.

Then again, there are some other folks who have spent an inordinant amount of money tricking out their guns with fancy doodads and dressing them up in expensive leather holsters, and want everybody to see their "goodies".

Personally, I fall into the third camp - it's just so much easier to OC than to do everything necessary to CC. No need to worry about tucking or untucking, buying pants a size bigger, etc. It goes on the belt & I'm out the door. My experiences have been that most people don't notice it anyway. Those that do are more curious why Santa Claus is out & about before/after Christmas than why he is carrying. (OK, my disguise is revealed. Be nice or no presents for you.)

I don't want to convert you to OC if that's not your thing. I would appreciate it if you would stop fidgetting about it.

stay safe.

skidmark

 

[Standing Wolf]

People who are afraid to exercise their civil rights don't still have them.

 

[Mainsail]

Open carry has some advantages I haven’t seen mentioned in this thread yet. I got my permit to carry concealed here in WA and noticed two things, I was always nervous about printing or revealing, and I was shopping for a tiny little peashooter for summer carry. Then I found out OC was legal in WA and began to carry that way. I carry my Sig 1911 comfortably on a belt holster. If it’s cold the pistol is concealed by my jacket, if it’s warm it is not. I don’t have to worry when I stoop or reach, and if I enter a business like a restaurant or retail store, I can remove my jacket and not worry about being arrested for exposing my pistol.

The other advantage for me was that I became very knowledgeable about my other rights, especially my privacy rights. Privacy rights in WA are actually stricter than the US Constitution. A police officer cannot (legally) detain me for mere open carry. While there were some bumps in the road along the way, open carry is now recognized and (begrudgingly in some cases) accepted by LE. I have not yet experienced any panic or disdain from the general public, in fact, as a rule I’ve experienced either indifference or even enthusiasm instead.

 

[hirundo82]

I also see no reason to carry just because its a right. Just because its your right doesnt mean that you should (even though you could) blatantly make it clear to others.

Is this the only right you feel we shouldn't exercise because it may offend someone? If not, I'm sure we would all love to hear which other rights you think we shouldn't exercise.

 

[Smurfslayer]

The only tecnically illegal act of open carrying in VA is anything fitting the requiremnts of 18.2-287.4 and ONLY if you DON'T have a permit.

Oh, and a full auto if you are carrying it for an aggressive purpose, but I digress...

The people who are predisposed to alarm are going to be alarmed IF THEY NOTICE whether you're carrying a gun or a 12 ounce can of coca cola. There is no brandishing, disturbing the peace, or common law breach of the peace by carrying a holstered handgun in VA. You *can* brandish without unholstering under certain conditions like moving your coat aside and accompanying the gesture with a threat, but again that's different from carrying for personal protection & excercising your right to bear arms.

I've lost count of the number of restaurants I've eaten at while open carrying. Yes, I've had trouble once, but it won't be repeated in that venue again. Can there be problems? Sure, just like any other demographic we have our good representatives and our bad ones. But my overwhelming experience has been restaurant managers and wait staff saying 'come back again'.

 

[longwatch]

I think the argument that if people open carry they will ban it, just isn't reflecting reality. The local prohibitions against the practice were preempted in 2004. Yet there is no hue and cry for a ban on OC.

Most people just don't care if you carry a gun or not here in NOVA or if they do they rarely do anything about it. At least in my experience. So I'll keep on open carrying, thank you.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Cutting to the chase, I'm concerned that groups of open carry folks might get a law put on the books rather than make people aware of the allowance.

I suppose it all depends on how these groups of people behave. From what I know, VA has plenty of well-mannered, responsible people who choose to OC. Is the public really scared to death of them? If such was the climate in VA, I really don't think that the laws pertaining to OC or CC would be as they are today.

 

[chris in va]

Is the public really scared to death of them?

From the reactions I've seen out here, quite a few people are startled by it. I really wish they weren't.

Another dilemma. I bowl on a regular basis, and the alley of course serves beer. Now I could either leave the gun in the car, or OC and possibly get on the management's bad side. "There's kids in here. You don't need to be doing that." Or I could ask management if it's ok, but I already know the answer to that one.

I've lived out here for 2.5 years and not ONCE seen anyone OC or spotted a CC.