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WA State Alien Firearms Licenses Part II

Discussion in 'Activism' started by MD_Willington, Jan 8, 2009.

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  1. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    #1 Judge sided with first NRA case, injunction issued, now judge needs to sign it, and DOL need to "get off the pot" maybe literally on that one.. ya never know.

    #2 HB1052 to be heard Jan 29, sounds good so far, I've been called by most of the Judiciary members or their underlings, they want it done ASAP

    #3 NRA case 2 is in August, sees if WA will drop LPR's requirement for AFL, as it is a breach of 14th amendment, as LPRs are "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof"...

     
  2. waverace

    waverace Member

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    I'm sorry

    I'm afraid the last 6 years of dealing with government agencies has made me a little soft in the head , I was under the mistaken impression that I had the right to defend myself and my family , that I had the right to partake in any legal sport of my choice and to collect as a hobby any legal historical artifacts of my choice , obviously according to WA state this is not the case and I am to be a good sheep and accept what I am told , without question and must roll over and expose my under belly for any and all attacks that I might have the fortune to recieve , and be thankfull for it .
    uhhhhh , HELL NO ! :neener:
     
  3. Gungnir

    Gungnir Member

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    Makes me wonder what the legal situation would be if a LPR shot an intruder in self defense (if their spouse was a US Citizen and had the right to own firearms in WA).

    Would they be automatically in breach of the RCW? Would they be cleared of any issue since the shooting was in Self Defense? How would WA apply the RCW?

    These are things I ponder while waiting for the Judge to sign the damn injunction.
     
  4. waverace

    waverace Member

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    the law is clear

    As a non citizen they would be illegally in posession of a firearm , class c felony , deportation ! same thing goes for asking to see a gun at a gun store or gun show , as soon as it is picked up , illegal posession , same at the range , if a friend says here have a go , as soon as it is touched , illegal posession .
    The one guy in the NRA case that works in the gun store , if he were to continue to work there just being behind the counter would be constructive posession , even if he didnt actualy touch a gun he has access to them .
    If an LPR is married to a US citizen the citizen has to keep any firearms locked away with no access to the LPR what so ever , dont know how this works for cleaning after a range session , maybe they have to wait till the LPR is out of the house .
    No matter which case you look at it doesnt make a lot of sense when the LPR is a law abiding member of his or her community , you are basicly treated the same as a convicted criminal without the luxury of a trial . you are prejudged to be a danger to the community .
     
  5. Gungnir

    Gungnir Member

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    Ah, so in that case, you are correct, should an intruder come to my house, I'm expected to flash them my underbelly and just concede.

    However the thing I really ponder, about the law, if the law is illegal and while no expert I certainly suspect it is, then does breaking it constitute an illegal act?
     
  6. waverace

    waverace Member

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    To be honest I dont know , I havent found any cases where anyone has been charged with this as a stand alone case , only a couple of cases where it has been added onto a drug charge or something similar , I suspect that the majority of gun owners especially LPR's , as we knew all along are law abiding , responsible people that dont draw attention to themselves , LPR's have more to lose than most "citizens" and as such will not normally cause trouble .
     
  7. waverace

    waverace Member

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    One part of me would love to get my local sheriff to charge me with it just to test the water , but knowing my luck I would get convicted and shipped out in double time without even making the back page .
     
  8. Gungnir

    Gungnir Member

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    Yeah, I hear you :) being a test case would not be my idea of fun.
     
  9. waverace

    waverace Member

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    If I had nothing to lose I would do it but I would make dang sure that I had all the guys from THR and the NRA sitting behind me .
     
  10. cdninusa

    cdninusa Member

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    recent lurker.... now a poster. Thanks and kudos to all who run this and those who post. this site always has the most up to date information.

    A couple of situations in this thread are interesting...

    1. I have to wonder if a US Citizen's rights are also potentially being violated by the current WA situation..

    my basis for the above is...civil rights are federal. There is no federal law preventing PRAs from possessing a firearm. Washington State has effectively applied a restriction to PRAs because, although there is a process for a PRA to obtain permission to own/possess/carry a firearm, the requirements cannot be met. This (apparently) means a US Citizen has to lock their weapons, making them difficult to access in an emergency situation.

    and the million dollar question...What if there was a situation where a Citizen would have been able to protect themselves if the guns were not locked up?

    2. I was told by a gun club that PRAs are allowed to shoot there (and they have many who do) but they are not allowed to take guns off the premises.

    as a side note, I called DOL a few minutes ago. The lady on the phone said something should happen by March. I asked about the injunction and she said they were not aware of anything formal yet, but they were also anxious to get things solved and said they would put something up on the DOL website as soon as they received notification. She seemed genuine in her response...like she actually wanted to help.

    hopefully the light at the end of the tunnel isn't just another train this time. :)
     
  11. Gungnir

    Gungnir Member

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    Nice of you to join the party, welcome.

    Interesting change in attitude from Friday, when I rang the DOL.

    DOL was unaware of any possible near term changes, and refused to send me an AFL package since “they can’t issue due to a problem with the FBI background check” I explained that sending me a AFL package was not in any contravention of any laws of the state of Washington and it was my money to throw away if I so desired attempting to file for an AFL. I don’t think the DOL appreciated either the irony, or the determination, anyway the package is on the Legal thread about this issue.

    As far as your point 2 is concerned...

    This is a situation of active vs. constructive possession, I wouldn't trust a shooting club to know the ins and outs of my legal rights. Especially for a deportable offense. My Immigration Attorney flipped out when in my naturalization application I put the SAF and NRA down as current memberships of organizations, and gave me many instructions of what I should not do, and possible impacts if I was found to be doing them, I explained that I understood Washington Law, and that I understood what RCW 9.41.170 meant which was why I joined those organizations, which calmed him down a great deal. Fortunately my wife is the keeper of her own firearms, but locked away in (I guess) our gun safe (Common Law State) and she has the key, not I, wonder what happens should she die though (not that she's in bad health or anything).

    Long and short of it, is that's my experience, bureaucracy at it's finest. Yes it suspends YOUR 2A rights as an Alien, and it also largely prevents your S.O. who might be a Citizen from the RKBA for self defense, which is why it's so stupid. It wouldn't have stood this long if it applied to any other "collective group".

    Once this is cleared up, and I'm a Citizen I'll support those (State and Federal Senators and Congressmen) who supported me, and not those who did not, Gregoire for instance.
     
  12. waverace

    waverace Member

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    LPR and local politicos

    Ok I may be wrong on this BUT I am pretty sure that as an LPR we are allowed to vote for local elections , even to run for them , just not federal and of course we can never become president no matter how long we are here , that is reserved for natural borns , which is ok by me , Bill Clinton says the job sucks ! :p
     
  13. cdninusa

    cdninusa Member

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    Thanks for the welcome.

    If and when I'm ever able to get a firearm, I want to make sure I fully understand the laws on use and carry (where not, when not and how not). Hopefully I'll never need to use or even mention I have it, but if the need ever comes up, I'd like to understand the laws on same beforehand.

    Perhaps someone can tell me where I can get information on this? I looked through the RCW's, which mentioned there is supposed to be a handbook (published by fish and wildlife?), but I can't find anything at all. Is this publicly available or does it come with your permit along with the secret handshake?
     
  14. Gungnir

    Gungnir Member

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    :what:?

    So I can vote, but not touch a gun :banghead:

    ROFLMAO, if it's true then I gotta say it proves the law's an a$$
     
  15. waverace

    waverace Member

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    as far as I know yes you can vote for your local officials , Ill ask my lawyer about it
     
  16. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    Okay guys.. I have to be a stick in the mud here...

    We need to take this discussion over to the legal section, in the other post... Other wise this one will probably get locked.

    Sorry

    MD
     
  17. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    Update for Canadians.

    The address for the Canadian Consulate in Seattle has changed:

    New Address.

    Canadian Consulate General
    Consular Affairs
    1501 - 4th Ave., Suite 600
    Seattle, WA 98101-4328

    Also included are;

    A sample of the refusal letter the Consular Program Officer will send to back. You should send the Consulate a copy of the letter, though I'm sure they have sent out quite a few of these.

    A letter asking for a certified copy of background check from Canada.
     

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  18. Gungnir

    Gungnir Member

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    Ok So the Injunction is in place, and we LPR's can get taxed to regain our 2A rights.

    However remember that HB1052 is due to be read in the Judiciary on Jan 29th.

    All of us should keep up the good work write to your state Senator and Congressmen, and make this stupid AFL go away forever.

    While on the surface the NRA/SAF lawsuit may seem to be winning, there are no guarantee's in court. If we can pressure our Representatives in the State of Washington, so as to eliminate this case by removing the AFL requirements before it's heard, we've made a step forward in defending the 2nd Amendment.
     
  19. NewWAstate

    NewWAstate Member

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    SAF Press Release

    I'm a bit behind the ball here - good work all.

    SAF COURT ACTION PROMPTS RESUMPTION OF WA ALIEN FIREARMS LICENSE PROGRAM
    BELLEVUE, WA – The Second Amendment Foundation and National Rifle Association this week have won a preliminary injunction against the Washington State Department of Licensing that requires the state to resume processing applications by legal resident aliens for alien firearms licenses.

    The U.S. District Court for the Western District of Washington in Seattle also ordered that license renewals and applications sought by three individual Washington residents participating in the lawsuit also be processed. Washington is the only state in the union that requires an alien firearms license be possessed by resident aliens in order for them to have a firearm. SAF and NRA said the state law discriminates against legal resident aliens who own firearms by violating their Second Amendment rights under the equal protections affirmed by the 14th Amendment.

    “We are delighted that the court has ordered a resumption of the licensing procedure, which was suspended by the state over what amounts to bureaucratic red tape,” said SAF founder Alan Gottlieb. “The State Legislature has had ample opportunity to fix what amounts to a glitch in a law that should never have existed in the first place. The people affected by the alien firearms license requirement are residents here; they are part of our community and have abided by the law.

    “One of the plaintiffs works in a Bellevue gun store,” he continued. “Without a renewal of his firearms license, he would not simply lose his firearms, he would lose his job.”

    The state stopped processing applications and renewals of alien firearms licenses because of a problem in running background checks. The result was that many resident aliens who had previously been issued licenses, and now possess firearms for sport, hunting and personal protection, could not get those licenses renewed. Upon expiration, these people would become “criminals on paper,” Gottlieb said, because they would be in possession of firearms without the license.

    “Once again, as has happened in New Orleans, San Francisco and elsewhere, teamwork between SAF and the NRA has paid off in a sensible solution to a problem that should not exist,” Gottlieb stated. “We are confident in a final judgment and we hope this sends a signal to the Washington Legislature to fix this problem.”
     
  20. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    We still need to contact everyone on the Judiciary, and the Rules, we need them to accept 1052-2009 and get it to the "gov"...

    Now at this point I'm wondering if we need to try to get media attention to the fact that we are still licensed for 2A rights...

    I know I said I'm getting a new AFL but I want this whole issue gone for future LPRs as it should have been in the first place..
     
  21. waverace

    waverace Member

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    Hope you have better luck with the media than I did , I have a friend that works for a local newspaper, she personally is anti gun but has no problem with me owning guns , I asked her if it would be possible to ask them to run a story about our situation and she said that she would not be allowed to bring it up at work because thay are not allowed to have an oppinion , they must remain impartial on anything political , I am completely baffled by her lack of understanding that my rights are being infringed upon and that this is potentialy more widespread than just a 2a issue .
    I am also completely disgusted at the newspapers stand on its employees not being allowed to have an oppinion , they can get firedif they speak their mind on anything , so much for the freedom of speech and freedom of the press .
    I'm working hard to swing her personally over to the side of the rightious but she has so much faith in the government that she simply will not question their motives , this is scary !
     
  22. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    The seattle pi ran a piece on the original lawsuit back in November 2008...

    The reporter that ran the story was updated this morning in regards to that passing of the first injunction.
     
  23. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Member

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    Go ask your local Sheriff for a copy. They hand them out with each LCP, so have them in stock.

    Pops
     
  24. waverace

    waverace Member

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    Just looked at the fiscal report for HB1052 , it states that in 2008 , 50 charges were brought up on the "old" law 46 of which were primary charges , I wonder how many of them were "law abiding" LPR's and if any of them were deported because of it . if the law is repealed do they get compensated and the conviction quashed ?
     
  25. waverace

    waverace Member

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    Todays the day the teddy bears have their pic-nic
     
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