Walther CCP

[RetiredUSNChief]

My wife sent me a link about the Walther CCP, a new single stack 9mm, that she's interested in.

http://www.waltherarms.com/handguns/ccp/

MSRP is $469 to $489, depending on whether you get the black Cerakote or stainless slide version. Darn good price, in my opinion.

I've read a few reviews but have yet to find one locally we can handle. Their "Softcoil" gas technology makes it a softer shooting, easier racking pistol, which would appeal to my wife.

I've read a few reviews, but usually take those with a grain of salt until something's been around long enough to have a wider audience of users.

Anybody here have one or shot one yet that would care to post any comments? Fit/feel, quality of construction, trigger feel, reliability, personal likes/dislikes...the whole gamut.

 

[MAKster]

I've read lots of terrible reviews. It's made at the Umarex factory and not the real Walther factory in Ulm.

 

[barnbwt]

They're not quite as notorious as the R51; I'll leave it at that.

TCB

 

[browningguy]

I looked at one the other day and wasn't too impressed, my regular carry gun is a PPS and I think I'll just stick with that for now. The action design interests me, but I think I'll wait on the CCP to see how it holds up for others.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

I wasn't impressed by the one I held. There are any number of competing models that I'd prefer.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

So, what "terrible reviews" are we talking about here? I've been reading several and haven't found any I'd call "terrible". Some less-than-glowing, yes. What made them terrible and do you have any links I can read?

For those who weren't impressed...why weren't you? What turned you off to the pistol?

 

[jimbeaux82]

Most of the reviews I have seen on youtube are very positive about the CCP. Based on that , I recently bought one to try myself. I have fired about 250 rounds thru it without a hiccup, 115 and 124 gr FMJ's and HP's. The slide is easy to rack, accuracy was more than acceptable, the pistol is extremely ergonomic and feels wonderful in my hand, and I carried it IWB for one day and seemed to be more comfortable than some of my other daily carry pistols. Only thing I saw negative in the reviews were talking about a gritty trigger. I noticed it a bit when dry firing but did not notice it at all during live fire.

All in all I am very pleased with it. Also Real World prices are even less than MSRP. I bought mine thru Gunbuyer.com at $389 including shipping, plus the $20 background check fee.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

It felt cheap, for want of a better word. I thought the safety was going to fall off.

 

[Schlegel]

There are in depth reviews at the Walther Forums. Some guys were happy, many were disappointed. I was interested for much the same reason as the op, but will look again in a year or so. Maybe, just maybe, they'll have fixed the manufacturing process. Arnsburg dissapoints again. Ulm factory remains reliable, at least. Very interested in new pps m2 and ppq.

 

[justin22885]

my expertise in such things comes from the technical aspect, so i will simply describe how the action works

the walther CCP uses a gas delay blowback system, as we know blowbacks are not locked and the pressure inside the chamber pushes the cartridge back but it must not push back too soon or the cartridge case will rupture and cause all sorts of problems, with most blowbacks (such as submachine guns) this is delayed simply by using a heavy mass bolt

in rifle cartridges, and pistols which are generally too small or lightweight to have the mass necessary, the blowback is delayed via mechanical disadvantage resulting in a situation that requires significantly more force to move the bolt, HK rifles for example use a roller system that must push the locking wedge out of the way before the action can unlock, allowing the chamber pressures to reach safe levels before the bolt opens and the action cycles

now with the CCP which uses gas delay, whats great about these is they do not need rollers, or levers or any of these other devices to delay the blowback, simply put a piston which is mounted backwards and attached to the frame works by simply negating the rearward forces applies to the inside bottom of the cartridge case, so while you have the chamber pressure pushing the slide rearward, you also have this backwards piston that is pushing the slide forward, the difference between the pressure pushing rearward vs pressure pushing forward is enough to where the mass of the slide id adequate to function like a normal blowback... mechanically they are much simpler

the fact the pistol functions this way gives you the advantages of softer recoil, lighter, easier to operate slide, and best of all the barrel is fixed to the frame which makes it a very accurate pistol.. i hope walther someday puts the CCP action into a full size pistol for the superior accuracy and the mechanical simplicity which leads to a potential of greater reliability

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

What "manufacturing process" are they having that requires fixing?

 

[Schlegel]

QC, it seems, and Walther forum members have noticed some machining variations in the slide internals that makes it look like they are still tinkering with the design. The critical item is that while some buyers report good function, others have had breakages after only a little use. There is a CCP subforum, you can read many real user reviews there.

If they suddenly became reliable, I'd want one, but I just don't think they are there yet.

 

[giggitygiggity]

They're reliable. The trigger isn't great, especially when compared to the PPQ. The safety is a chinsy looking, but overall the pistol feels great, points well, is accurate, and is reliable.

 

[roscoe]

Weird - it seems to compete with their own PPS, which gets raves. Both are 8-round 9mm CCW pistols.

 

[ttarp]

I held one in store a while back, loved the fit and feel of it, but I'm going to wait until the teething issues are over. I think it would make a good cheap alternative to sweating all over my P7 during summer carry.

I wish they would offer an option with an extra C on the slide and a red star on the grip though...

 

[justin22885]

the reason i wont own the CCP is the takedown, you need a tool to remove the slide which is about the dumbest thing walther could have done

 

[dragon813gt]

Weird - it seems to compete with their own PPS, which gets raves. Both are 8-round 9mm CCW pistols.

I don't understand the pistol either. I've been carrying a PPS since they came out. I could not be happier w/ it. I get that it's a different action. But the PPS is a great pistol. One that's overlooked for some reason.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

You've got to remember...I'm looking at this through my wife's eyes. Her needs and wants are different than mine and yours. She doesn't have a PPS and her hand strength isn't the same as mine or yours.

Not to mention what appeals to her aesthetically is different than for us.

 

[roscoe]

So it is a question of reduced recoil? Or does it also have an easier slide to manipulate? I guess I am not too sure what that type of action does for the shooter.

 

[cuervo]

Go here if you haven't already:
http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/ccp/

 

[ProPhetiQ]

If she just wants one for range use then it's no problem, but if for CCW, I would advise against it as much of the product from that Umarex plant in Arnsberg Germany is not great quality.....totally different than the original Walther plant in Ulm, where they make the P99,PPQ, PPS, and all Walther high end rifles etc....that stuff goes to European law enforcement/miltary. Nothing from Umarex plant in Arnsberg goes to those agencies.

 

[justin22885]

You've got to remember...I'm looking at this through my wife's eyes. Her needs and wants are different than mine and yours. She doesn't have a PPS and her hand strength isn't the same as mine or yours.

Not to mention what appeals to her aesthetically is different than for us.

couldnt you get her a .380 with a tilt-up barrel?.. no need to rack the slide on that one, and revolvers have so many advantages over automatics when it comes to defense, though if she has issues pulling back a slide she may not be able to pull a stiffer DA trigger all that well either

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

So it is a question of reduced recoil? Or does it also have an easier slide to manipulate? I guess I am not too sure what that type of action does for the shooter.

Easier to rack the slide, primarily, followed by reduced recoil for a 9mm in that size.

couldnt you get her a .380 with a tilt-up barrel?.. no need to rack the slide on that one, and revolvers have so many advantages over automatics when it comes to defense, though if she has issues pulling back a slide she may not be able to pull a stiffer DA trigger all that well either

She already has a .380 (PPK/S). That's her "Bond gun" and you won't be able to pry that from her hands even though she has a really difficult time racking it. She isn't interested in a revolver (yet).


Appearance seems to play a part, too. She simply likes the look of the gun.

 

[george burns]

I heard they gunk up in the gas tube because of that new system which uses the gas to aid in recoil management. They need to be cleaned after every 50 rounds of so depending on ammo. I would let her try their new PPS, which shoots much more reliably.

 

[wally]

and best of all the barrel is fixed to the frame which makes it a very accurate pistol

In a Ransom Rest.

When shot by actually aiming, the accuracy is largely set by slide to frame fit since the sights are on the slide and the barrel is fixed to the frame, so accuracy is often worse than with a tilting barrel design of the same caliber, barrel length and sight radius.

In a "normal" tilting barrel pistol its the slide to barrel lockup that sets the accuracy and the slide to frame fit is only a second order effect via the link or cam that tilts the barrel.

The generally better accuracy of fixed barrel .22lr pistols has been un-critically accepted as a "virtue" of the fixed barrel design, but its not, because on the .22lr pistols (Ruger, Buckmark, Neos, S&W M22A, etc.) the sights are on the barrel and receiver/frame so variance in slide (or bolt) to frame/receiver fit is largely a non-issue since the barrel/sights relationship remains constant.


On external hammer pistols like the PPK/S does she thumb cock the hammer before racking the slide? This helps a lot as often cocking the hammer is large percentage of the total racking force, doing it in two "stages" can make it go from difficult to easy.

Check out the difference racking a SIG P938 with the hammer down vs. with the hammer cocked. When I looked at the CCP it was significantly harder to rack than the cocked P938 and significantly easier than the P238 with the hammer down. That and the size (larger than the PPS) made us lose interest.