Warning for .22 abusers

[kBob]

So out in my truck in a little key lock "safe" attach to the frame of the driver's seat lives a little H&R 930 revolver. A sturdy little tank of a gun, it hold nine .22 LR ready for use by pulling the DA trigger or thumbing back the hammer and touching off SA shots.

It fulfilled the need to "have a gun" in the truck and based on long past experiences I knew it "beat not having a gun.

It had been under that drivers seat for a couple of years when I last used it that almost two years ago.

So in the interest of "Hey I aught to at least shoot that thing on occasion" I took it out yesterday, and donned a new set of electronic muffs and safety glasses and headed to the bullet trap.

New electronics worked differently than my old Dillons but worked fine until shot five when they sound odd. While pondering what that meant I fired chamber 6.

Nothing wrong with the electronic muffs at all.....round five was a squib and so soon bullets 5 AND 6 were lodged in the barrel.

Now honestly I can not say if those rimfire rounds had been in a foam lined box through two Florida Summers, one of which featured stuck down electric windows so the truck now on cold mornings still has condensate dripping from all glass on the inside and mold growing everywhere or three or four as that last use two years ago was only two rounds that were replaced and the gun put away uncleaned. Any rate it was my policy before kids came along to NEVER leave ANY ammo in a vehicle more than six months.

Who can say if the Squib was a factory error, humidity, temperature extremes, or Vulcan or Wotan expressing anger over my poor treatment of an arm?

Still I just wanted to encourage the rest of you to NOT LEAVE AMMO FOR AGES in the vehicle.

I myself am now properly shamed having confessed of my sins before this crowd.

-kBob

 

[rpenmanparker]

Where do you go with this gun from “ lodged in the barrel”? Was there any risk in firingthe sixth round? Any damage or safety repercussions.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I don't really believe in leaving a gun or ammo in a vehicle at all.

Good reminder.

 

[kBob]

Were you go from a bullet lodged in the barrel is to the shop. This was not the first revolver I had to drive a bullet from the barrel of and it is a thing most smiths do on occasion. One "nice" thing about a revolver is that the barrel cylinder gap does provide somethin of a vent and they seem to be less likely to develop a bulge in the barrel than semiautos or single shots.

The stuck Bullet, after the gun is safe (in this case I removed the cylinder so I could place the forcing cone on a leather pad on the horn of my vise) is driven back toward the forcing cone using a hard rod in the bore, usually a hardened brass rod is called for but in this case a large zinc coated nail worked fine with the snubbie .22 barrel. The last light tap was with gun in hand.

Visually inspected the bore and test fired and the revolver now waits for a serious cleaning in the shop safe. The "car Safe" is airing out and I intend to run the foam inserts through the drier on low and keep an eye on them.

I have seen more than a few squib load bullets in .38 revolvers of beginning reloaders and once removed FOUR Double ended Wad Cutters from a nice Colt Diamond Back.

I do recommend that folks that did not learn this sort of thing under the supervision of an experienced smith to take guns with stuck bullets to a real smith and not "a guy at a gun shop"

Bulges BTW are more frequently what happens BETWEEN a Squib stuck in the barrel and the next round. Sometimes that high pressure developed between the stuck bullet and the just fine moving one moving up behind it is enough to form a bulge in the bore, sometimes visible on the outside of the barrel and sometimes not. Sometimes this pressure is enough to launch the stuck bullet on its way and the shooter may never realize the squib ever happened. Sometimes it does that AND leaves a bulge. Some folks shoot bulged pistol barrels with no concern. I would worry that that spot might be weak and ripe for bursting if another squib went un noticed and another healthy round ran up the pressure again.

-kBob

 

[MedWheeler]

I live here in Florida, too. I'd trust centerfire ammunition (or WMR ammo) over .22LR stuff because the crimp on centerfire or WMR is better-sealed and more able to keep moisture out. Definitely a good reminder to keep stuff rotated.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

Another FL resident here.

I have a similar lock box in my car, and my EDC spends more time in the box than on my hip due to work constraints.

I've started rotating my ammo more than I used to as well to keep things reliable

 

[Slamfire]

Any rate it was my policy before kids came along to NEVER leave ANY ammo in a vehicle more than six months.

Who can say if the Squib was a factory error, humidity, temperature extremes, or Vulcan or Wotan expressing anger over my poor treatment of an arm?

Still I just wanted to encourage the rest of you to NOT LEAVE AMMO FOR AGES in the vehicle.

Good policy. I talked to a members of a military safety group, they had to get military ammunition out of tracked vehicles, if the stuff stayed too long, accidents happened when it was fired.

Old ammunition does not get better with age. I purchased a case of 22 LR Remington Standard Velocity from the CMP more than 10 years ago. The stuff came out of military inventory, and I believe I know why. About two out of ten rounds misfires. The misfire rate is higher in some of my 22lr target rifles than others, which is a consequence of the firing mechanism power. But, this ammunition misfires in everything. It is not very accurate either, dropped shots are common. It is old ammunition. Gunpowder stored in hot conditions deteriorates exponentially faster as the temperature increases. The shooting community is largely ignorant of this, largely ignorant about the deterioration of gunpowder, the mechanisms of deterioration, and the longevity of ammunition. And I believe this is deliberate. Why don't you know, what you don't know? No one makes profit educating you about what not to buy. I wrote a long series of posts, that were taken very well. Some skeptics as usual, but overall, taken well.

Factory ammo cracks when fired
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/factory-ammo-cracks-when-fired.844044/#post-10976253

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Awhile back, I pulled ammo kept in my vehicles due to the weather extremes.The guns and ammo are stored indoors under moderate conditions, and taken to the vehicle as needed.

 

[Old Dog]

I always had a fondness for those ol' top-break H&R revolvers. And yeah, I've always left loaded guns in my vehicles for months at a time ... though only in more temperate climates, never in Florida or Arizona ...

 

[Jeb Stuart]

22.cal is very sensitive to shipping and of course all the rattles in a vehicle will move the primers. Probably not the best caliber to keep in a car. There is a video some where by 22 Plinkster on how primers react to shipping/handling etc.

 

[kBob]

Old Dog,

The H&R 930 is a solid frame with a swing out nine shot cylinder, but yeah the top breaks are cool and there is quite a following for them on THR by folks that don't get silly with the ammo.

This H&R 930 is however ugly as a result of poor storage in the past to the point where I would be embarrassed even further to post a picture.

-kBob

 

[Demi-human]

A good reminder, @kBob. I will certainly keep an ear tuned more finely in the future for any off sounds. I'm glad it was "only" a Twenty Two and that you are unharmed.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

When I shoot at an indoor range I now have to double up on hearing protection. I have to use both plugs and ear muffs, otherwise its way too uncomfortable. I have some hearing loss, and loud sounds really hurt now.

Because of this, I can see myself missing a squib , especially if the range is busy

 

[Odd Job]

I'm clearing out a lot of posts here. Let's keep it civil from now on.

 

[kBob]

Odd Job,

Thanks for throwing your hat in the ring on this.

It was never my intent to get folks fired up and aggressively going at one another over my just trying to be helpful.

By the way I am not terribly thin skinned and understand that some folks can make what some might consider hurtful statements when they feel they too are just trying to help.

I am reminded from all this of when I was about eight the kid two doors down's father owned a small sawmill with about thirty employees. One day while playing in the chip pile I noticed that most every employee we saw had some sort of scarring on a hand. When the other kid's dad took us home for lunch I asked about it and the old guy (a lot younger than I am now, but when you are eight....) explained that he only hired the guys missing a finger or with obvious stitching and scarring so he was sure he got experienced folks that were less likely to make those very kinds of mistakes again.

Fortunately I picked up no new scars in this latest experience that are visible and just wanted to pass the experience along in the hopes no one else would be less lucky.

-kBob

 

[sota]

22.cal is very sensitive to shipping and of course all the rattles in a vehicle will move the primers. Probably not the best caliber to keep in a car. There is a video some where by 22 Plinkster on how primers react to shipping/handling etc.

Time code 3m 38s he discusses primer dislodging.

Given this, would it be safe to say that, for rimfire ammo stored/shipped in cases where they're held individually (CCI most notably) does it make sense to store and transport said ammo bullets up, so as to help prevent dislodging the primer compound? Obviously for bulk packs you're SOL given the random nature of the box fill, and some brands (like CI) package their ammo up/down in the box to get as many in as small a space.

 

[JONWILL]

You also have to watch what type of lubricant you use. The instructor in my CCW class was a firearms instructor for the Columbus PD.

He told us the story of a small department that came in to train.

One of the Deputies had a Colt Python. I guess he never fired it much or even changed the ammo in it at all.

He had 4 out of 6 rounds misfire. Found out the only maintenance he did on it was to spray it down with WD-40 and wipe it off.

The WD had made its way into the primer pocket and made the primers inert.

Lucky for him he never had to use it.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

^ Keep WD-40 away from ammo. WD-40 has a penetrating solvent and leaves a waxy protectant. It's not a good lubricant. I'll soak rusted parts in WD-40 for 24 hours before cleaning. It's good to clean stuff and wipe off. It can penetrate and deaden the primer and gunpowder inside a cartridge.

 

[Pat Riot]

I do have vehicle guns that I keep in my truck and my motorcycle when I am driving or riding (no they do not stay in the vehicle / saddlebags). I make sure I do not leave the ammo in those guns for more than 2-3 months max. Mostly because of what you experienced, kBob. I remember years ago a police officer friend told me to never trust ammo that has ridden in a vehicle for more than 6 months. I cut that time in half.

I did have ammo I carried in my truck for 6 months that I fired and noticed a distinct change in firing characteristics between rounds. Some sounded hotter than others. Rather than blow up a gun or get a squib I ceased firing and disassembled the remaining ammo for reloading.

I recently bought a Henry AR7 that I plan to use as a saddlebag gun. I believe I will learn from your .22 experience and shoot the ammo up and replace it every couple of months.

 

[OneFreeTexan]

You mean you had guns that you don’t shoot?

 

[thomas15]

You also have to watch what type of lubricant you use. The instructor in my CCW class was a firearms instructor for the Columbus PD.

He told us the story of a small department that came in to train.

One of the Deputies had a Colt Python. I guess he never fired it much or even changed the ammo in it at all.

He had 4 out of 6 rounds misfire. Found out the only maintenance he did on it was to spray it down with WD-40 and wipe it off.

The WD had made its way into the primer pocket and made the primers inert.

^ Keep WD-40 away from ammo. WD-40 has a penetrating solvent and leaves a waxy protectant. It's not a good lubricant. I'll soak rusted parts in WD-40 for 24 hours before cleaning. It's good to clean stuff and wipe off. It can penetrate and deaden the primer and gunpowder inside a cartridge.

It seems to me that WD-40 would have an easier time getting into a rimfire cartridge through the crimp but way before that it would strip off the lube. One time as an experiment I submerged some 22LR ammo in water for 5 minutes, the ammo shot but lost some of it's spunk.

But the claim is that WD-40 will get past the primer on presumably a centerfire cartridge. I'm open minded but skeptical that spraying some on the outside of a round that it would wick to inside the cartridge. So I took a round, pulled the bullet, removed the powder and filled the brass with WD-40. Also filled another with Kroil. Will check it every day and report back. Let's see how long it takes to get past the primer in that heavy of a concentration. I think it will be probably a day at least.

 

[JONWILL]

It seems to me that WD-40 would have an easier time getting into a rimfire cartridge through the crimp but way before that it would strip off the lube. One time as an experiment I submerged some 22LR ammo in water for 5 minutes, the ammo shot but lost some of it's spunk.

But the claim is that WD-40 will get past the primer on presumably a centerfire cartridge. I'm open minded but skeptical that spraying some on the outside of a round that it would wick to inside the cartridge. So I took a round, pulled the bullet, removed the powder and filled the brass with WD-40. Also filled another with Kroil. Will check it every day and report back. Let's see how long it takes to get past the primer in that heavy of a concentration. I think it will be probably a day at least.

The instructor told us this guy had done this with the gun for at least a year. Between annual qualifications

 

[thomas15]

The instructor told us this guy had done this with the gun for at least a year. Between annual qualifications

I'm not doubting that the instructor told you this.

 

[kBob]

thomas15

You might try putting some primed cases in say a sheet of cardboard to allow the rounds to hang down like they would in a revolver in a holster or bullet loops or speed loader pouch on a belt and then spray them every day for a bit and wipe them off with an old t-shirt. This might be much more like what cops used to do.

The WD40 wicking through to kill a primer is a common cop story and I first heard it when a local Barney had failures to fire on an annual over 40 year ago.

-kBob

 

[thomas15]

You might try putting some primed cases in say a sheet of cardboard to allow the rounds to hang down like they would in a revolver in a holster or bullet loops or speed loader pouch on a belt and then spray them every day for a bit and wipe them off with an old t-shirt. This might be much more like what cops used to do.

The WD40 wicking through to kill a primer is a common cop story and I first heard it when a local Barney had failures to fire on an annual over 40 year ago.

It's been almost two days and nothing has seeped past the primer yet. I think you want to believe this story which is your right but I don't think so.