Quantcast

What BP substitute is best?

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by tark, Mar 1, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    26,279
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
    I sympathize. Nearest I've found BP is 150 miles away other side of San Antonio. I ain't making the trip just for that. I also ain't buying bulk and I ain't paying a hazmat fee. I shoot pyrodex, but I don't have a flinter. THIS is part of the reason. Flinters won't light without BP. The government has in effect outlawed BP for us that don't live a block from a BP wholesaler. :rolleyes:

    Pyrodes and 777 do everything I need doing, for the moment. I prefer Pyrodex, has the smell and sound of BP. I shoot 777 in my inline for the performance. I have had problems getting pyrodex to fire easily in a sidelock percussion cap shooter, too. I put a gizmo on my Hawken that converts it to shoot small rifle magnum primers...no more click/bang. I have one for my CVA Plainsman, but I've kept the number 11 nipple on it. If I REALLY need it to fire fast, I'll pull the nipple and put some pyrodex primer charge under it and screw it back down. That works rather well for hunting, but I don't really hunt with it. My old eyes prefer the optics of my CVA Wolf 209 primed inline.

    You see, I'm a shooter/hunter, not a re-enactor or history fanatic. I could really give a crap about true authenticity. Hell, the guns say "Pietta" or "Ruger" or "Investarms" or "CVA" or "NAA" or "ASM" on 'em. How realistic is THAT? :rolleyes: My cap and ball guns work great with pyrodex, no need to change for me. My ROA wakes right up and spits fire with 777. I get phenomenal performance out of the stuff, but the ROA is a strong gun, strong enough to take a full compressed charge of 777. I shoot pyrodex in the ROA, too almost exclusively, for the boom and the smell. :D I do kinda like that. If I were to take the ROA hunting, I'd stuff it with 777.

    Anyway, to answer your question with my opinion PYRODEX!
     
  2. Noz

    Noz Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2010
    Messages:
    830
    Location:
    Southwest Missouri
    No one mentioned APP.
    If you told me I had to use a sub or quit I would go to APP. (that's the only reason tho)
     
  3. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    26,279
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
    I tried that Shocky's Gold crap. It sucked.

    Many of us in effect have been told sub or nothing by the federal government. Texas needs to secede for this alone. :rolleyes:
     
  4. Gaucho Gringo

    Gaucho Gringo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,100
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    I wonder how it is legally. Texas is the only state that was an independent sovereign country before it became part of the US. No other state has that distinction.
     
  5. rszwieg

    rszwieg Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    188
    Location:
    WI
    Gee I guess I'm lucky to have a store that carries black 35 miles away. Even so black is getting really expensive. Good thing I stocked up.
     
  6. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2013
    Messages:
    2,026
    "I sympathize. Nearest I've found BP is 150 miles away other side of San Antonio. I ain't making the trip just for that. I also ain't buying bulk and I ain't paying a hazmat fee. I shoot pyrodex, but I don't have a flinter. THIS is part of the reason. Flinters won't light without BP. The government has in effect outlawed BP for us that don't live a block from a BP wholesaler."


    Let's see: Won't drive, won't buy bulk, won't pay a hazmat fee. Seems that it comes down to your own choices then, not the government "outlawing" much of anything. Take a drive, get lunch, grab a years supply of powder, and drive home. Just another part of our hobby.


    "Many of us in effect have been told sub or nothing by the federal government".

    Only if you won't drive once in your life to buy what you will use for the next decade, or too cheap to buy a can and have it shipped to you.... Sure there's a Hazmat fee: It's Hazmat. Buy ten pounds and share with a friend, or have a supply for life. That's not really a terribly hard bar to get over.





    Willie

    .
     
    woodnbow likes this.
  7. rodwha

    rodwha Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,535
    Location:
    Texas
    I had been buying my Triple 7 from BassPro. But then they were out of 3F every time I went in. I had wanted to try real BP but only if I could get Swiss or Olde Eynsford. After sparing use of the last of my T7 I finally went to Grafs and found that just 3 lbs of T7 offset the cost of the HAZMAT and I didn't have to make 45 min round trip and deal with the lines at whatnot.

    It's not worth it for one pound and maybe not so much for 2, but I don't mind having it shipped if I buy 3. Just wish Grafs would get percussion caps in. They've been out for about 2 years now! So I buy this (10 cams) online and pay another HAZMAT.

    I certainly wouldn't make the drive of 150 miles for real BP if T7 were available near me either though.
     
  8. Don McDowell

    Don McDowell Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,546
    Location:
    east central Wy.
    The hazmat fee is what 27.50? How dang much gas can you buy to drive across town to buy a can of the fake stuff at Walmart??
    You pay hazmat on that single can of sub you buy, you just don't see it on the price tag.
    The hazmat fee is the same whether it's 5 lbs or 50.
    Shooting a rifle of any size a lb of black will get you maybe 100 rounds,, if you shoot much at all a full case of powder doesn't last very long.
     
  9. tark

    tark Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,731
    Location:
    atkinson, ill
    HazMat fee is $28. I ordered ten pounds yesterday. I will GLADLY pay $2.80 for every pound of powder for the convenience of having it delivered directly to my door. I was shocked at the low price of a pound in the first place. I expected I would be paying thirty dollars a pound or more. It was $17, if I remember correctly.

    Thanks again to one and all.
     
    woodnbow likes this.
  10. EljaySL

    EljaySL Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2011
    Messages:
    636
    Location:
    California
    Glad it worked out for you!

    Black powder definitely gets pretty cheap/pound in the 10 pound range. For some people that's not a lot of powder, and for others it's a crazy amount...
     
  11. frontiergander

    frontiergander Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    841
    If you have a 209 ignition inline that can reliably shoot it, Blackhorn209 by far puts them all to shame. Shoot the entire 10oz jug or even the 5 pound jug and never have to swab that bore clean. Cleans up easily with your normal centerfire cleaner, not rust inviting water.
     
  12. Noz

    Noz Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2010
    Messages:
    830
    Location:
    Southwest Missouri
    Beats 777 and Pyrodex all over the place.
    I don't know why I posted here. I shoot only black and buy that in 25# lots to split with a friend. Lasts about a year.
     
  13. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    26,279
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
    Before the governments transportation rules, I could get BP in any little town with a gun shop in Texas! Some time in the late 70s this changed by government regulation.

    Tread carefully around me right now when you support the government. I just did my damned taxes! :fire::banghead:

    Government over-regulation is a pet peeve. It KILLS small business. Don't get me started.

    Anyway, I ain't risking my life on San Antonio's freeways and burning all that gas to get there over a few pounds of powder when I can get Pyrodex in El Campo, 40 miles away. I MAY, however, try to make my own. Sounds like a fun project. :D I've got Brush hippie's vids on the subject and most of the stuff to do it except the raw chemicals. I'll get around to it. :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2015
  14. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    26,279
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
    Not in my guns, it don't.

    That's part of why I won't pay the hazmat charge. I'll go through a pound of pyrodex in a year or 2. I really don't shoot BP THAT much. If I had 12 pounds, I'd have to will part of it to my daughter. I'm 62 years old, doubt I'd live long enough to shoot it all.
     
  15. rodwha

    rodwha Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,535
    Location:
    Texas
    "Beats 777 and Pyrodex all over the place."

    Guess that depends on what you are after. In my pistols I'd be back to the weak useless .38 Spl performance typical of those types of powder.


    "Anyway, I ain't risking my life on San Antonio's freeways and burning all that gas to get there over a few pounds of powder when I can get Pyrodex in El Campo, 40 miles away."

    I wouldn't drive one way a couple of hours for something different through traffic either. I live outside of Austin and don't care to venture through that mess for much of anything.
     
  16. rodwha

    rodwha Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,535
    Location:
    Texas
    "Not in my guns, it don't."

    If I'm not mistaken it doesn't perform (velocity by volume) perform any better than Pyrodex or weak BP's, right? It doesn't hold a candle to T7 from what I understand (velocity by volume), right? Weak is weak where I come from...
     
  17. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    26,279
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
    Well, you guys have to give me some slack on this thread, anyway. After doing my taxes and being ROBBED, I'm a little testy about the gubment. LOL! Yeah, MAKING BP is my only out unless I just happen to have to go to SA for something else. Wife's flying out to Washington state to be with her daughter while she gives birth to her second, gonna be gone for 3 weeks while I take care of the animals and the homestead. I'd hoped she'd fly out of SA as the airport ain't TOO far from that gun shop with the BP I've been told about, BUT, she's flying out of Hobby/Houston. DAMN! If there's any place worse than SA, it's driving up the SW freeway to 610 loop. :rolleyes:

    Anyway, I can order the chemicals without paying hazmat, I do believe.
     
  18. EljaySL

    EljaySL Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2011
    Messages:
    636
    Location:
    California
    "unless I just happen to have to go to SA for something else"

    Well, that's the thing, apparently you only need to every year or two.

    My closest provider of black powder is 100 miles away. But I'm actually over that way a couple of times a year, and there's another black powder seller even further in another direction and I'm over there sometimes too. If I'm in the area I pick up a pound.

    Next time I need primers and Grafs actually has the kind I like in stock I'll pick up a little real black from them as well.

    It adds up.
     
  19. rodwha

    rodwha Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,535
    Location:
    Texas
    MC: I hear you and know what it's like driving around (lived in San Antonio and now outside of Austin) here in big cities in TX. I greatly dislike it, though SA doesn't seem quite as bad as long as it's not rush hour. Houston is a whole nuther story! Worked there for nearly 4 months and hated the place on many levels (was near downtown in the Galleria). You'd have to drag my dead body to get me back there (unless you were my good friend).

    On another note I'm curious about making powder if I knew it was safe enough. It scares me though in that a mistake may take down my whole house and maybe the neighbors too. Not cool, and not worth saving a few bucks.
     
  20. rodwha

    rodwha Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,535
    Location:
    Texas
    I must say I'm certainly glad I'm not in CA where all I can have is up to 1 pound of real BP at a time. For that they should have to pay any HAZMAT fees since you can't offset them by volume. Make the antis help pay it with their tax dollars!
     
  21. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    26,279
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
    It's just a physical mixture, very low chance of a kaboom, especially with the low volumes I plan to make. Hell, I made my living in chemical plant labs working with stuff like hydrogen cyanide wearing a moon suit in a pressure locked room under a fume hood. I ain't skirt of charcoal. :D
     
  22. rodwha

    rodwha Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,535
    Location:
    Texas
    I'm a bit skirt! I don't know enough, and from what I do "know" is that if it goes wrong my neighbors may pay for it too. I'm OK with catching myself on fire but not my garage or my house or my neighbors (I kinda like them a little bit).

    Not so much with charcoal itself, though I use just enough to catch my wood, as I use it plenty in my BBQ. Hell, I smoke my hamburger patties too!
     
  23. Crawdad1

    Crawdad1 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    3,726
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I agree and Mr. Sutton is correct as usual. I have it down the road and I buy a few cans each time. Hunting, range time or target practice it goes far and all part of our hobby.
     
  24. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    26,279
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
  25. rodwha

    rodwha Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,535
    Location:
    Texas
    Is a rock tumbler the same thing as a case tumbler?

    And does the size of the lead balls used matter? Is a smaller ball better than a larger ball? I have .457" and .490" ball molds.

    I have stump remover from trying to nitrate papers for cartridges. I lost interest as it wasn't quite the relaxing fun and ease it had been making cartridges. Maybe I ought to try it again...

    If I had a very knowledgable person standing over me I'd feel much better. I've talked to Fly and Brushhippie.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice