What can a break-in period cure?

[Skribs]

In another thread I mentioned my 1911 I just got that doesn't seem to feed well. The suggestion is to take it to the range, and I plan to - I just haven't had the time yet.

However, I find it hard to believe that a break-in period will fix the issue I'm having. Can you guys share some of the things you've seen a break-in period fix?

I think this will help me feel better about taking it to the range as it is.

 

[Panzerschwein]

During manufacturing, there can be some rough burrs left behind. Breaking it in means you are letting the gun parts smooth out and "mate" with each other. The parts will smooth into one another. Most manufacturers recommend a break in period because of this.

Get some good magazines and good ammo and go shoot it a bunch at the range, 300-500 rounds. You might well find your issues go away. If not, send it back to the factory. RIA has great customer service. I am getting one of there FS Tactical .45s next weak. Can't wait!

 

[Skribs]

I know what the break-in period does, as far as making things match together.

My question is what symptoms have you seen it cure?

 

[Harleytoo]

Most guns do require a break in period of some type. Even the ones that dont I would consider the first 500 rounds or so "break in".

I am anal retentive and tend to take my mobile cleaning kit with me to the range when I am testing a new gun and do a bit of wipe down (not a full cleaning) about every 250 rounds.

Mainly, just like anything mechanical that does something repetitive requires the mating parts to get "use" to one another.

Break in will also highlight things that may need to be tweaked. It is not uncommon, especially in a mil-spec 1911 for components to need a bit of tuning.

 

[Harleytoo]

BTW, if you Google "1911 Tuning" or "1911 Maintenance" you will find a lot of helpful articles to help you understand your new gun better.

 

[M-Cameron]

no newly manufactured gun should require a "break in" period to run correctly from the factory......

if you need parts to "wear together" in order for your gun to work properly...then your manufacturing and quality control is crap.

the whole "break in" thing is just an excuse to cover up bad design or bad manufacturing.


we dont tolerate a "break in" period in other products we buy.....honestly, would you buy a smoke detector, a fire extinguisher, a toaster oven, or a bicycles that required a "Break in" period to work properly?.....hell no.

so why put up with it on our guns?....

if my gun doesnt run from the factory, it gets sent back......

 

[Harleytoo]

The above statement about break in is why so may people have cars, and guns that don't work properly.

 

[Skribs]

Smoke detector has no moving parts.
Fire extinguisher relies on pressurization more than moving parts.
Toaster has such incredibly loose tolerances it doesn't matter.

 

[Harleytoo]

Simple fact is that mating surfaces very definitely require a period of time (no matter how short) to "mate" properly just like they need a bit of oil to aid in this and function smoothly.

Even bearing surfaces made of things that are specific for this use require a bit of it.

Now, does that mean it won't function. No, it should function. But, you may experience some hang ups until it does.

 

[M-Cameron]

Smoke detector has no moving parts.
Fire extinguisher relies on pressurization more than moving parts.
Toaster has such incredibly loose tolerances it doesn't matter.

what about my car?........that has a lot of complex and high tolerance parts.....yet it starts up and runs 100% from the day i buy it......

i dont go "oh, my car didnt start today....thats alright, itll run right once it breaks in in a few hundred miles"....

im a mechanical design engineer......i would never consider designing a product that required my user to "break it in" in order to function.......if it doesnt work, i either change my design...or i change my manufacturing until it does.....ensuring my products work is my job, not my customers.

not doing so is just being lazy or incompetent.

 

[Harleytoo]

If you don't think your car requires break in .....


.... words actually fail me.

 

[M-Cameron]

If you don't think your car requires break in .....


.... words actually fail me.

not to function they dont.......they dont all of a sudden stop running, or fail to start until they are broken in......

 

[Harleytoo]

Cameron, seriously man, please stop. You really are not helping your argument.

Take it from someone who has spent the better part of 53 years working on all manner of mechanical devices (especially cars and bikes), break in is necessary.

The problem with modern automotive manufacturing, they began playing to the lowest common denominator and doing part of the break in prior to sale. Cause people would not read the owners manual or listen to the sales guy if he was smart enough to explain break in to them.

 

[Harleytoo]

Skribs, back on point - run it, clean it, run it, clean it, run it clean it. Stick to ball ammo for now and see if it improves. If not, send it back to the manufacture and have them give it a once over. Make sure you make notes about what you are experiencing and send them the list.

Edit: Also, look up a few articles on 1911 maintenance and look your weapon over really well. You may find something nicked, bent or possibly a surface with a bad burr. Compare each surface and component to a picture of it and make sure everything looks like it should.

It happens that you run across a badly burred part or other anomaly that can cause a feeding issue. You may be able to diagnose your problem yourself with a bit of research and checking.

 

[M-Cameron]

Haha just stop?.....oh ok....how and I wrong?

Would you buy a car that doesn't run reliably until it's broken in?

Would you buy a bike that doesn't shift reliably until it's broken in?

You've spent time designing cars and bikes, that's cool....I've spent my life designing everything from nuclear pressure vessels to industrial equipment to advanced radar systems.....my customers would laugh if I told them it requires a break in....

None of my glocks, ARs, shotguns, or revolvers required a break in.....hell, nome of my anschutz match rifles required a break in either.....

Yet when it comes to 1911s, everyone bends over backwards making excuses....

So tell me how I'm wrong......or do you want to compare resumes sone more

 

[Harleytoo]

I learned a long time ago, never argue with children or people on the interwebs.

I am going to accept that at this point you are just trolling.

Please God, my only prayer is that I am not living anywhere near anything you designed, especially anything nuclear.

As for bending over backward to make an excuse, I think we are accepting the function of a design from .... 1911.

As for resume's mine sucks. I learnt most of what I know by just doin. No PHD, no BS, MBA, just old fashioned knuckle bustin.

And you know, where I come from that's worth quite a lot. But I like all the fancy stuff you have there. I thought an Anschutz was a dog, or a WWII labor camp/prison. I bet I never learnt that though since I don't have that Nuclear degree.

 

[M-Cameron]

Yrah....Calling people trolls is a pretty lame copout for not coming up with a valid argument to their points

So I can safely assume you don't have a answer and are just floundering and trying to dismiss me......

Sucks being proven wrong doesn't it?

 

[RA40]

Other than one of the 1911's mine have run well from the start. After they have had 300-500 rounds they feel smoother. Generally that is one aspect to the manufacturer test firing them to check for proper function. Some do get past that don't run well so getting to the range will verify that.

That 1911 mentioned above ran the first 100 rounds fine. Afterwards I had erratic extraction, stove pipe and some FTF's. New extractor and some ejector tuning it has improved and my gripe is getting it to eject where I want them. (This last session the cases were flying over my shoulder. The range officer came by and told me cases were smacking the glass window about 15' back. At least that fixed the brass to the face issue.)

 

[BSA1]

I have seen a "break-in" period of a few hundred rounds solve failure to feed, failure to eject, speed up slow running slide and improve the trigger pull.

The most extreme case I saw was a buddy's Colt Government Model. The slide and frame rail had a slight hitch that occasionally owed the slide down enough to cause FTE. Rather than taking a chance with UPS losing his gun and the expense of shipping he just kept shooting it. Around 900 rounds the hitch gremlin disappeared and the gun runs perfectly. In fact it has one of the smoothest slide frame fits I have seen.

What M-Cameron is totally overlooking is the most common source of problems with semi-auto pistols is the magazine. I have a Colt Gold Cup that the factory magazine was junk. (Feedlips were not made right), So I had a high dollar target gun that I could not shoot due to the defective $ 8.00 magazine.

Now I don't know anything about "nuclear pressure.vessels" but if a company spent millions of dollars designing and manufacturing a magazine I would expect it to be perfect. In fact if you are willing to pay for it you can buy very well made 1911's that with high quality magazines will run perfectly out of the box.

However the market shows most gun owners do not want to pay for that level of craftsmanship.

What I don't understand is why the O.P. is looking for problems with a gun he hasn't even shot yet.

 

[Harleytoo]

Cameron, I think anyone here who knows anything about the mechanical knows I have proven my point. However, lets leverage that obvious superior knowledge of physics and consider the following;

I will assume that you have an understanding of friction. And than any two items rubbing together create friction.

I will assume that you understand that said friction create heat and wear.

I will assume that you have a superior understanding of lubrication as well. And that we lubricate parts that react with one another with lubrication to reduce friction, heat and wear.

However, with a superior understanding of Nuclear Physics, you surely have a good understanding of combustion.

Being that our topic of choice has a component of combustion, we have a greater amount of heat generation. Furthermore, combustion (as I know you understand) creates carbon buildup. Also, combustion of gunpowder creates corrosive residue.

Now, we have friction, heat, and corrosive agents combined with lubrication which, in tern, tends to hold on to these agents creating, build up.

Thus, if we only look at physics, and all of the components above which are acting upon each other with every cycle of the slide there is a level of wear.

Therefore, in your model, only the very first round shot is from what should be a perfectly functioning device. Every shot after creates wear and breaks down (or breaks in) the device.

Now, if we consider that we can clean 75% of the "residue" when we clean (which may be objective), then we can never get back to a perfect condition but only "wear" on the device through physics alone with these factors.

Now, I have not even begun on tooling marks, coating irregularities, and (heaven forbid) the possibility of a poorly installed part. All of which will exacerbate the situation.

However, most of these devices are not build to Nuclear or even aircraft grade specifications. Thus the level of play in them allow for wear to remain acceptable and not create a lock up of the function due to tolerances that are too close.

In the case of the 1911, especially MilSpec, are built to run even when filled with mud and muck. Situations that would make most finely tuned devices bind and lock.

Thus, as you can see, simple physics (not even nuclear in general) prove the fact that there is break in which provides for function of a device in continuing adverse conditions created by our inability to "perfectly" clean a device.

Is that better?

 

[M-Cameron]

in your attempt to be a smartass, youve literally done nothing but flap your gums, look like a moron and proven nothing....

but nice try pal....go back to being wrong.

 

[Harleytoo]

Humm, best you could come up with there bud?

 

[MIL-DOT]

I agree with M-Cameron, his point is completely valid. That being said, I see Harleytoo's point that things do wear together and function more smoothly after a break-in period, but M-Cameron is still right, this shouldn't be to the point that it's actually stopping them from functioning. If it's THAT jacked up, then it's the fault of the designers and manufacturers, it isn't something that we should accept as "normal", and have to routinely eat $100-200 worth of ammo to correct.
I've been very fortunate in this regard, in 30+ years of owning pistols, I've only had a couple give my any issues at all, and those were mild and infrequent.

 

[Zerodefect]

Some pistols have a very rough machined finish on the outside of the barrel. The pistol won't be able to function with optimum reliability under all situations until that's smoothed out some.

Some pistols have glass smooth hammer forged barrels. No break-in needed.

 

[Zerodefect]

I don't know how they built engines 53 years ago. But the end user can't "break-in" a real engine.

Car engines use very soft rings and even the finest car engines out there are pathetic farm tractors offering mediocre performance. The rings will be seated and broken in before the car even leaves the factory. The suggestions in the manual are there mostly so ya'll take it easy and give the engine time to sling off any mess inside so the filter can catch it. And so that warranty defects don't kill anyone driving too fast. Hopefully the car falls apart during the "break-in period" before such.

Real engines can only be broken in on the dyno or load bank. Or something that offers 100% load, like full speed in a marine application. I won't sell a race engine without dyno testing it, to run it in and properly seat the rings first. Even though I offer ZERO warranty anyways.

That's right, absolute 100% full throttle is the only way to properly break-in an engine. Even my DDC MTU 4000 3 megawatt mills get load banked at 100% load immediately.